Switched to sand, but...

[Jonessa]

Hi everyone! I have a 4x8 raised coop, with an 8x10 covered run, inhabited by 6 lovely girls who are just starting to lay. All summer, we used pine shavings in the coop, and left the run as bare dirt. When I cleaned out the coop every month or so (it stayed pretty clean since I have poop boards under the roosts), I would just sweep the used shavings in to the run. I never really noticed much odour, and the girls were happy to peck around and bathe in the dirt. However, the dirt in that area is icing sugar fine, and poofs everywhere! And the shavings were making a mess, blowing out of the run. So after much research, I decided to try sand in both the coop and the run; it sounded like it would overall be cleaner, less dusty, drier, and would maintain a more stable temperature. It's been a week now, and I love certain things about it: the run is no longer dusty, and the coop and run are super clean because I scoop the poops out every day. The girls no longer dust bathe in the run, though; they now save that for outside in my garden beds when they are free ranging, so it appears that they prefer dirt. The big question I have, the big doubt in my mind, is regarding temperatures through the winter. The sand, although dry, is much colder to the touch, compared to the shavings that I still have in my external nesting boxes. I had read that sand has a higher thermal mass than shavings and will therefore keep coop temps more stable, but even if it doesn't freeze, I worry that it's going to be pretty cold to walk around on in the winter. FYI, I don't plan on heating the coop; it is draft-free, and well-ventilated along the top. I live in the southern interior of BC; in the summer, we can get temps as high as the high 30s celsius, and in winter, although the average is between -5 and -15C, it can occasionally get as cold as -20 or -25C.
So it all boils down to this: even with all the other benefits of sand, is it going to be too cold for my girls?? I understand that bedding is intended to keep the coop dry, not warm the coop. But I worry that it's actually going to make it colder for the girls. I could sweep the sand in the coop into the run, dig it into the dirt (which will hopefully still help with the dust issue of plain dirt), or even add some to the garden; and then replace the coop sand with shavings again, going back to my previous maintenance methods. The deep litter method doesn't interest me, so if I do shavings I will be cleaning the coop regularly.
Super long post!! What should I do?

 

[TalkALittle]

Just use a pitch fork and turn the sand into to soil below. Then start putting material right over the top. That's what I did when I switched from sand to deep litter. I scoop material from deep in the litter and screen it each fall to put it on my garden.

One of the first things I noticed when I went to deep litter was that my birds did much less standing on one foot and perching on the outside roost than they did when I had sand. They were more active scratching around in the litter too. As an experiment, in the beginning I did one side sand and one side litter. They spent virtually no time on the sand side.

 

[Jonessa]

Here's a few pictures of our coop

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

How thick is the sand?

If it isn't too thick I would just start the deep litter. This time of year I load my runs with fall leaves mixed with grass clippings. Winter means hay gets put down. Spring bring weeds, and any edging trimmings, and summer is weeds, spent mulch, some grass clippings, and any extra produce.

 

[Jonessa]

Here's a link to the whole thread that details my journey from sand to deep litter.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/help-springtime-stink-in-the-run.959402/#post-14929973

I read through the whole thread last night - very interesting!
After doing a lot more reading, I have decided to make a complete change from sand. I have removed the sand from the coop and replaced it with pine shavings. Because I have poop boards, it stays clean and dry for a long time. As for the run, I dug the sand into the underlying dirt, and have started a semi-deep litter system (I say semi because it really isn't very deep). On top of the dirt/sand mixture I added a two inch layer of half composted old shavings, grass clippings, and leaves, to add some life into the barren dirt. On top of that I spread a thin layer of shavings, and then a couple of inches of fresh dry leaves. It looks great, smells sweet like a forest floor, and the girls love it!
I am in the process of bagging more leaves to store for the winter.
One question I have is this: the run is covered, and further protected from weather by close trees on two sides. It is quite dry inside (although we have yet to go through a winter to see what that brings). Do I need to be periodically adding a bit of moisture to the litter, or just leave it, other than adding more brown material on top as needed?

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

The sand isn't very deep, only about 3".

How often you pull material out of your run?

I never pull anything out. I composites in place. The chickens work it daily with some scratched tossed in daily to encourage them.

The only you need to be careful with is adding too much grass clippings as it will mold if too deep. I do a dusting that dries out pretty quickly. When you toss in pulled weeds, and any edging material the dirt will help with the biological matter. Never use DE with a deep litter or you will kill the beneficial bugs and will have dead soil.

 

[lazy gardener]

My temps are similar to OP. I use DL in both coop and winter run. When I clean the bedding from under the perches, it gets scooped out into their summer run. I add extra material to the winter run, in an effort to keep the DL a minimum of 6" deep. Old hay, leaves, wood chips, garden debris, grass clippings. The run is partially covered with a green house tarp (over one section of the roof) and the remainder of the roof is covered with 2 x 4 welded wire to keep hawks out. Yes, they even visit in the very late fall, early spring. No doubt raptors also visit in the dead of winter. The 3 sides of the winter run are covered with plastic to provide a nice "green house" climate. Usually 20*F warmer than ambient temps during the day. The girls happily create compost for me all year round.

I will never consider sand as bedding material anywhere, after visiting a friend who uses sand for both pigeons and chickens. He meticulously rakes poo on a daily basis. Yet, 5 minutes in his aviary was enough to send my asthma into overdrive for the remainder of the day. Stink? Yeah. On the other hand, DL done correctly does not need maintenance other than adding more litter. I can also harvest wheel barrow loads of rich black compost from the run for my gardening pleasure.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I wouldn't use sand in the coop personally but you will have to see how it goes. If it's too cold your chickens will hold legs up to warm them, or lay down a lot to warm them.

 

[Jonessa]

Here is what it looks like now

 

[aart]

Thanks for your input! So what do I need to do differently to make the the "delicious 'deep litter' micro climate teeming with organisms"? (love that description!) Is it just depth that is lacking?
The level is currently as high as it can go without starting to go up against the hardware cloth.

Just keep getting it deeper, it's really got to be about a foot deep to support the micro and macro organisms, but you are limited there with your coop/run combo. Still just keeping a good browns balance should take care of the poops. You may have to do more management due to small size.

You can go against the HC.
I lined my run with HC so I could do deepish litter, but then I don't have wood at the bottom.
Had stinky sandy soil after the grass was gone, just adding some browns took care of the stink right away and I just keep adding to it.

Check out this guys set up.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/disposing-of-old-shavings.1201566/page-2#post-19035555