Teach me how to free range with dogs, please

[SueAndHerZoo]

This very possibly might be a post I should put on a dog behavior forum but thought I'd try here first because I know some of you have both chickens and dogs and may have some tips.

Situation: I have a large fenced-in yard, and within that fenced in yard is a smaller fenced in section that contains the pet door, allowing the dogs to go in and out of the house at will. Normally the dogs have access to the entire yard but if there is a BBQ or some event happening in the large yard, we contain them in the smaller section for a while. They can watch, but can't join.

I have 3 dogs: 3 year old boxer/Rottie, 8 year old mutt (looks like a Corgi) and a 7 month old pitbull. Naturally they all have some prey drive and constantly try to catch squirrels and rabbits and birds in the yard but luckily never succeed. If I had only one dog the training process would be easier, but having three, they feed off of each other and will get a pack/prey thing going.

I was thinking of opening the door of the chicken run tonight about an hour before dark to see if the chicks want to explore while keeping the dogs contained in the small section They can watch but not chase, and I'm sure there will be frantic barking and jumping going on. But is this the best way to do it or will that only increase the dogs' desires to "get them" when I do let the dogs in the big yard?

I'm truly at a loss. Do I instead take one dog at a time into the coop and run area to introduce them to the chicks? I'm lost and really hesitant to try anything for hear of harming a chicken but I also hate the thought of my ladies never getting to free-range.

Thoughts? Opinions? Ideas?
Sue

 

[Evadig]

Could you alternate times when they’re out?

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

Could you alternate times when they’re out?

Actually, that's not a bad idea. My fantasy was to have the chicks and dogs living in peaceful harmony and becoming buddies with the dogs protecting them from other predators, but this would be a starting point at least. Just wondering if keeping the dogs contained while the chickens are loose is going to increase their desire to GET THEM once they have the chance? And wow, there's going to be lots of barking and jumping going on but hopefully they will get bored with it after a few times.
Sue

 

[Evadig]

Actually, that's not a bad idea. My fantasy was to have the chicks and dogs living in peaceful harmony and becoming buddies with the dogs protecting them from other predators, but this would be a starting point at least. Just wondering if keeping the dogs contained while the chickens are loose is going to increase their desire to GET THEM once they have the chance? And wow, there's going to be lots of barking and jumping going on but hopefully they will get bored with it after a few times.
Sue

I don’t know, both my dogs adapted pretty easily to chickens - hopefully someone else will offer some advice!

 

[SandyRiverChick]

When you say "chicks," are they really chicks? You can achieve the co-exist that you're wanting but it's takes patience and can be a very long training process. So in the meantime, fences within fences are the way to be safe. Dog's being pack animals do tend to "go after," chickens more as a pack then when they are alone. A chicken just doing chicken walking, pecking behavior doesn't kick the prey drive into gear like a running chicken does. It triggers game-on for most dogs. So do individual chicken training with commands and behavior corrections single and together, but don't let everyone roam about the country together until you're quite confident.

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

When you say "chicks," are they really chicks? You can achieve the co-exist that you're wanting but it's takes patience and can be a very long training process. So in the meantime, fences within fences are the way to be safe. Dog's being pack animals do tend to "go after," chickens more as a pack then when they are alone. A chicken just doing chicken walking, pecking behavior doesn't kick the prey drive into gear like a running chicken does. It triggers game-on for most dogs. So do individual chicken training with commands and behavior corrections single and together, but don't let everyone roam about the country together until you're quite confident.

They are 8-9 weeks old, but they look like full grown chicks - still amazed at how fast the tiny fluff balls turned into chickens! When you say individual chicken training, did you mean one chicken at a time or one dog at a time?
Sue

 

[NatJ]

Actually, that's not a bad idea. My fantasy was to have the chicks and dogs living in peaceful harmony and becoming buddies with the dogs protecting them from other predators, but this would be a starting point at least. Just wondering if keeping the dogs contained while the chickens are loose is going to increase their desire to GET THEM once they have the chance? And wow, there's going to be lots of barking and jumping going on but hopefully they will get bored with it after a few times.
Sue

Can you make each dog lay down and stay? If so, can you get all three staying at the same time, in their section of the yard?

If you can do that, you can try having the dogs all "stay" in their section while the chickens are allowed to free range in the other section. With you there to supervise, and a fence in the middle, you shouldn't have any accidental chicken-chases or chicken-killings at that point.

That may help the dogs realize that chickens are something they have to watch quietly, instead of being allowed to chase them. Maybe give the dogs treats while they continue to stay, to re-inforce the idea that good thing happen when the dogs are lying down and the chickens are ranging.

A variation would be to shut one or two dogs in the house (block the dog door), and work with just two or one of them at first, rotating which ones do it. You could mostly ignore the chickens and work on dog training, so they don't think the chickens are toys: bring one dog out on leash, heel and sit and down and stay, back into the house and get a different dog with the leash...

This kind of thing gives the dogs practice obeying you at a time where there is something exciting and distracting, so there are some benefits even if they do not learn to be trustworthy when unsupervised.

Maybe also let the dogs sniff the chickens, to get a close exposure without anyone getting scared or hurt. I would shut two dogs in the house for this, have one in the small pen, and then you catch one chicken and bring it over for the dog to sniff (plan to catch the chicken without a big chase scene: maybe grab it after dark, or corner it calmly and then grab.) Many dogs can sniff a chicken if you are holding the chicken and obviously in control of the situation. If you can't get your dogs to do that safely, you obviously will not be able to let them loose with chickens either.

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

Can you make each dog lay down and stay? If so, can you get all three staying at the same time, in their section of the yard?

If you can do that, you can try having the dogs all "stay" in their section while the chickens are allowed to free range in the other section. With you there to supervise, and a fence in the middle, you shouldn't have any accidental chicken-chases or chicken-killings at that point.

That may help the dogs realize that chickens are something they have to watch quietly, instead of being allowed to chase them. Maybe give the dogs treats while they continue to stay, to re-inforce the idea that good thing happen when the dogs are lying down and the chickens are ranging.

A variation would be to shut one or two dogs in the house (block the dog door), and work with just two or one of them at first, rotating which ones do it. You could mostly ignore the chickens and work on dog training, so they don't think the chickens are toys: bring one dog out on leash, heel and sit and down and stay, back into the house and get a different dog with the leash...

This kind of thing gives the dogs practice obeying you at a time where there is something exciting and distracting, so there are some benefits even if they do not learn to be trustworthy when unsupervised.

Maybe also let the dogs sniff the chickens, to get a close exposure without anyone getting scared or hurt. I would shut two dogs in the house for this, have one in the small pen, and then you catch one chicken and bring it over for the dog to sniff (plan to catch the chicken without a big chase scene: maybe grab it after dark, or corner it calmly and then grab.) Many dogs can sniff a chicken if you are holding the chicken and obviously in control of the situation. If you can't get your dogs to do that safely, you obviously will not be able to let them loose with chickens either.

Yes and no to some of the dog commands: The two older ones I could definitely work with to get them to sit, stay on their side of the fence, but with the new rescue addition who is a high energy lunatic (aren't all puppies?) he would get the other two going.

The dogs have sniffed the chickens through the chicken run and the dogs are now pretty much bored by them, but having them in their yard would be a totally different scenario. And I did let the dogs sniff the chicks when they were living in the house (until they were 5 weeks old) but yes, I could try that again now that the birds are large and living outdoors.

The other challenge is the chickens are at the stage where they aren't really crazy about me trying to touch them or grab them, so yes, I would have to contain one first and calmly get it to one of the dogs to meet. Lots of good tips and thoughts, thank you, and keep them coming!
Sue

 

[RojoMarz]

Good advice so far. When I was working with our Jack Russell, I would put him on a short leash and we would sit down in the middle of the free range chickens. During our sitting session, there were lots of "leave it" and "good boy". Something like that could be stage 2. I did notice that our dog seemed to negatively react when the chickens ran (which makes sense.) If the chickens walked, he was fine...

 

[igorsMistress]

We have three dogs, they never have an opportunity to mingle with the chickens and ducks. They don’t bark and go crazy when they’re outside, and we have excellent control over them, but I wouldn’t ever trust them in the yard with the birds. When the birds run, all bets are off and the dogs give chase right up to the fence. Sometimes they rush the fence to make the birds run.

Bullies in particular will feed off one another, sometimes to the point that they’ll harm their pack mates even though it’s all kisses and hugs when they calm down.

Your best bet is to keep them separated by that fence even when they are used to the chickens being in the yard. Separate times to free range is a great idea. Dogs during the day, birds late afternoon/evenings. When you do let the chickens out, keep an eye on the dogs to make sure they don’t turn on each other. Now, while the chickens are young and look similar to other birds that might be in your yard is a good time to start.

Good luck.