Technical coop building question.

[Merrymouse]

Oh and $19 for the truck rental

 

[aart]

'Walk' the big sheets, tipping corner to corner.....
....no reason to ever totally carry the entire weight.
Leverage is a girls best friend, boys too if they'd think about it.

 

[bruceha2000]

I have news for you @Merrymouse a 4x8 sheet of anything is hard for ANYONE to handle. I'm 6'2" and they are still very unwieldy and heavy. They do make "panel carriers" to make it easier though I do not have one. I don't mess with sheet goods any more than I have to.

First (second??)

!!!

A few tips.

1. You are on the right track, you CAN do this! Sounds like you've thought things through with respect to making it easy to build by making use of the dimensions of lumber. If you think you might want to move it at some point in the future (downsizing) consider making the walls in 'sections' and connecting them together with bolts, washers and nuts. Each section would be complete with 1/2" hardware cloth.
2. When people say "staple" in the context of a coop and 1/2" hardware cloth, they do NOT mean Arrow staple gun style staples, they mean poultry AKA fence staples. They are U shaped nails, pointed on both legs. Once all the way in, the are a royal pain to get out. Regular staple gun staples will pull out easily. However they are good for tacking the HC up before securing it. Always nice NOT to have to hold the wire in place with one hand, the staple in the other and the hammer in the third! Secure the HC with staples, screws through fender washers or a single long board screwed over the edge/joint of the HC.
3. If you put a regular gate latch on your run door, make sure you have a "trip" wire fed to the inside. I have not personally been on the wrong side of this but you will find posts by those who have. I use a lockable barrel bolt on the outside of the door with a carabiner through the hole and a hook and eye on the inside. The door opens out, I use "deep shavings" in the coop and the 1"x6" across the bottom to keep the shavings in also keeps the door from being pushed inward. I also have self closing hinges like @bostick18 suggested.
4. Make sure you have adequate ventilation. It is actually more important up here in the frozen north during winter than it is in summer. You really can't have too much ventilation, just be sure there are no drafts blowing on the birds on the roost. Lack of ventilation means too much humidity and frostbitten combs and wattles. Lack of ventilation means ammonia ladened air and the birds have to breath it. Not good. As you can see from the link in @aart 's signature section, VENTILATION!
   
5. Remember that chickens grow their own down coats and are well suited to cold. Even my Cubalayas (as the name suggests, originated in Cuba, not a cold spot!) did fine even at -20F. Again, just make sure they have some place to be out of the wind. Some people put clear plastic tarps up on the outside of the run in the winter as a windbreak. Doesn't need to be full height, chickens aren't very tall
   
6. If I got this right, the south side of the coop faces the woods? And I guess those woods are pretty close if DH is concerned about mold/moss/whatever on the coop. I would still put some windows on that side so they get light.
7. If you are building a predator proof run (sounds like you are) an auto chicken door is great. Lets the birds out without you needing to get up and closes them in whether you are home or not. I prefer my birds to not be locked in the coop unless it is night time and they are asleep. They put themselves to bed as it gets dark. My door is a PulletShut. Setting the 'timer' is a PITA if you want to change it through the seasons because you have to cancel. To set the opening time you have to manually (with the magnet) open the door at the time you want and close it the same day at the time you want. But they have a photocell option that will open and close the door with the sun. Perfect for my needs/desires. We didn't have power down at the coop when I got it and I wasn't sure if there would be enough sun to use their solar charger and batteries so I put two 6V lantern batteries in series to get 12V. My concern about the solar charger was unfounded. I last replaced the lantern batteries in November 2014. Yes OVER 2 years ago, that door uses VERY little power.
8. The roof is 1' higher on the front than the back and the roof is 10' deep, right? That is almost flat, get the roof rake ready or put in very substantial rafters (2x6 at least) 16" on center
   
9. I don't know where the external egg box will be but if it isn't in the run under the roof, make sure it is watertight and you won't be standing in a downpour off the roof when you collect.

Probably lots more but I'll keep track and add when I think of stuff.

 

[Merrymouse]

'Walk' the big sheets, tipping corner to corner.....
....no reason to ever totally carry the entire weight.
Leverage is a girls best friend, boys too if they'd think about it.

Why didn't I think of that??? That would have made is much easier. Good grief...use your head girl!

Well I still have to move them from my garage to the build site so you can be sure I will be "walking" them the entire way. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Merrymouse]

I have news for you @Merrymouse a 4x8 sheet of anything is hard for ANYONE to handle. I'm 6'2" and they are still very unwieldy and heavy. They do make "panel carriers" to make it easier though I do not have one. I don't mess with sheet goods any more than I have to.

First (second??)

!!!

A few tips.

1. You are on the right track, you CAN do this! Sounds like you've thought things through with respect to making it easy to build by making use of the dimensions of lumber. If you think you might want to move it at some point in the future (downsizing) consider making the walls in 'sections' and connecting them together with bolts, washers and nuts. Each section would be complete with 1/2" hardware cloth.
2. When people say "staple" in the context of a coop and 1/2" hardware cloth, they do NOT mean Arrow staple gun style staples, they mean poultry AKA fence staples. They are U shaped nails, pointed on both legs. Once all the way in, the are a royal pain to get out. Regular staple gun staples will pull out easily. However they are good for tacking the HC up before securing it. Always nice NOT to have to hold the wire in place with one hand, the staple in the other and the hammer in the third! Secure the HC with staples, screws through fender washers or a single long board screwed over the edge/joint of the HC.
3. If you put a regular gate latch on your run door, make sure you have a "trip" wire fed to the inside. I have not personally been on the wrong side of this but you will find posts by those who have. I use a lockable barrel bolt on the outside of the door with a carabiner through the hole and a hook and eye on the inside. The door opens out, I use "deep shavings" in the coop and the 1"x6" across the bottom to keep the shavings in also keeps the door from being pushed inward. I also have self closing hinges like @bostick18 suggested.
4. Make sure you have adequate ventilation. It is actually more important up here in the frozen north during winter than it is in summer. You really can't have too much ventilation, just be sure there are no drafts blowing on the birds on the roost. Lack of ventilation means too much humidity and frostbitten combs and wattles. Lack of ventilation means ammonia ladened air and the birds have to breath it. Not good. As you can see from the link in @aart 's signature section, VENTILATION!
   
5. Remember that chickens grow their own down coats and are well suited to cold. Even my Cubalayas (as the name suggests, originated in Cuba, not a cold spot!) did fine even at -20F. Again, just make sure they have some place to be out of the wind. Some people put clear plastic tarps up on the outside of the run in the winter as a windbreak. Doesn't need to be full height, chickens aren't very tall
   
6. If I got this right, the south side of the coop faces the woods? And I guess those woods are pretty close if DH is concerned about mold/moss/whatever on the coop. I would still put some windows on that side so they get light.
7. If you are building a predator proof run (sounds like you are) an auto chicken door is great. Lets the birds out without you needing to get up and closes them in whether you are home or not. I prefer my birds to not be locked in the coop unless it is night time and they are asleep. They put themselves to bed as it gets dark. My door is a PulletShut. Setting the 'timer' is a PITA if you want to change it through the seasons because you have to cancel. To set the opening time you have to manually (with the magnet) open the door at the time you want and close it the same day at the time you want. But they have a photocell option that will open and close the door with the sun. Perfect for my needs/desires. We didn't have power down at the coop when I got it and I wasn't sure if there would be enough sun to use their solar charger and batteries so I put two 6V lantern batteries in series to get 12V. My concern about the solar charger was unfounded. I last replaced the lantern batteries in November 2014. Yes OVER 2 years ago, that door uses VERY little power.
8. The roof is 1' higher on the front than the back and the roof is 10' deep, right? That is almost flat, get the roof rake ready or put in very substantial rafters (2x6 at least) 16" on center
   
9. I don't know where the external egg box will be but if it isn't in the run under the roof, make sure it is watertight and you won't be standing in a downpour off the roof when you collect.

Probably lots more but I'll keep track and add when I think of stuff.

Wow! Very good info and stuff I didn't think of. Especially the door lock. I'll be sure to have a way to open from both side and a spring or something to close it behind me. About the roof snow load, Ill have to think more about that. Good point. My DH goes out in big snow and shovels off our deck but that wont help us if we happen to be away from home. Hmm..
I was thinking of having the roof extend a little further out over the nest boxes but not sure if that looks awkward. Also I was thinking of having the nest boxes open from the side instead of the top. Not sure want the advantages of this are but I thought maybe if the top didnt have hinges etc it would be more weatherproof.
Im also an early riser, not by choice, but even on my days off I'm up by 5:30am. But you're right about the auto coop door, my DH loves gadgets so I think he will go for this addition. My only worry is what if the girls don't go in their coop in time and they are locked out. Never had chickens before so I guess they just figure this out and naturally head inside to roost near dark?
Im planning a good sized window for the south side (back) for winter sun.
I did read alot about the ventilation factor and plan to have plenty. Thank goodness for this site, I would have never known that.
I had no idea about the staples either. Gosh you are full of good tips

The plywood was a challenge but aart had a good tip for moving it next time. Cinder blocks and gravel were no walk in the park either. I did think to wear some work gloves and on the way back to lowes I brought a cushion to sit on. It was kind of funny on the way home from Lowes I could barely see over the steering wheel. So tips for Newbies and short people 1. work gloves are your friend and 2. Big trucks are not made with short people in mind

I also think its hysterical that it takes all this planning, time, effort and a whole lot of money to house an animal that will initially only cost me about $2 a piece

Thanks for your help, this is quite the adventure.

 

[aart]

Great post from @bruceha2000 ...... I will add:

Big roof overhangs are a good idea, no matter how it looks......
......so ventilation can be kept open during rain events, top hinged windows are the bomb for the same reason.

Outside egg collection from side rather than top is another good idea, big roof/lid/top overhang on nest boxes can help there too.

Self locking latches are not good IMO...use self closing hinges or I use screen door springs for an 'auto close' door and loop/carabiner for latches.

More on moving materials.
I bought a hand truck with pneumatic tires that can be used vertically or horizontally to move a very large rock from old house to new 18 years ago...long story.
One of the best tools I ever bought, have used it for leverage and mobility on all kinds of things.
I use it more and more the older I get, mostly these days to move 50# bags of feed from van, up ramp(just a piece of plywood sized to fit) over steps into coop.
Never lift and/or carry anything of great weight that you don't have to.
If you can roll it, flip it, walk it, drag it......or put it on a hand truck...do so.

 

[Merrymouse]

Great post from @bruceha2000 ...... I will add:

Big roof overhangs are a good idea, no matter how it looks......
......so ventilation can be kept open during rain events, top hinged windows are the bomb for the same reason.

Outside egg collection from side rather than top is another good idea, big roof/lid/top overhang on nest boxes can help there too.

Self locking latches are not good IMO...use self closing hinges or I use screen door springs for an 'auto close' door and loop/carabiner for latches.

More on moving materials.
I bought a hand truck with pneumatic tires that can be used vertically or horizontally to move a very large rock from old house to new 18 years ago...long story.
One of the best tools I ever bought, have used it for leverage and mobility on all kinds of things.
I use it more and more the older I get, mostly these days to move 50# bags of feed from van, up ramp(just a piece of plywood sized to fit) over steps into coop.
Never lift and/or carry anything of great weight that you don't have to.
If you can roll it, flip it, walk it, drag it......or put it on a hand truck...do so.

Agree, very helpful post from Bruceha. So aart, you seem to have a vast knowledge of all things chicken-about the roof overhang, I'm a little concerned my roof is going to be too big/heavy. Let me preface by saying I don't have any expertise in construction ie: structural load bearing. So if I use two 2x4 butted together set at approx 24" apart or whatever approx width my hardware cloth is for posts, along with 2x4 trusses, will that be enough to support the roof I plan? So if Im building 8x14 my roof would be 10x16 or a little more to accommodate the nest boxes. Someone suggested I use 2x6 trusses but I already bought the 2x4's. Do you think if I set them about 16" on center this would be sufficient to hold the roof with an occasional snow load. I will rake the snow if I see it building up.

Like the top hinged window idea. Dont have my windows yet. I may try to buy them on the cheap. Making them myself seems daunting. We'll see.
Wow duh....I have a hand truck! I better start thinking things through or I'll end up throwing out my back and I'll never get the coop done.

40 degrees here right now, I might go out and try to work on the foundation. Its going up to around 50 today, would have been a great day to get out there and work but I have a dog show today and have to leave in a couple hours.

Thanks again for all the hand holding

 

[Finnie]

What kind of dogs do you show?

 

[aart]

So if I use two 2x4 butted together not quite sure what you mean by this, butted usually means end to end and can work in a compression situation like the vertical wall studs, but not so much(or at all) in a span situation like horizontal rafters as it's a weak spot.

So if Im building 8x14 my roof would be 10x16 only if your roof is flat, if your front wall is higher than your back wall roof will be bigger.

Someone suggested I use 2x6 trusses but I already bought the 2x4's. Do you think if I set them about 16" on center this would be sufficient to hold the roof with an occasional snow load. I will rake the snow if I see it building up. First, trusses are different than rafters, you'll be using rafters. The span a 2x4 can hold also depends on the roof sheathing you use, not just the snow load. 2x6 might be a better choice, depending on your final design..

Like the top hinged window idea. Dont have my windows yet. I may try to buy them on the cheap. Making them myself seems daunting. I used window panels form old sliding windows and hinged them at the top, see My Coop page, luckily they were already in place so the frames were there.

You may have bought your lumber too soon...but don't despair!!.....you'll end up using all you bought, but may have to get more.
Would be good to see a plan view(top view/floor plan) and 2 side views(front and side) of what you plan to build.
Get your graph paper out again...it'll help you figure out what to do before you do it, and figure out what other lumber you might need.
But I'm a drafter by trade, I draw everything out multiple times before buying materials or starting to build, and can have a hard time understanding without 'pictures'.
Might be good to look at some simple shed building plans too, to understand the basics of building walls to support a roof.
Glad to help someone learn, I've built a lot of stuff(some of it badly-haha), not an actual building tho...but do have a basic understanding.

 

[bruceha2000]

The word you are looking for rather than "butted" is "sistered". I don't know why it isn't "brothered", "mothered" or "fathered". Maybe sisters are more likely to hang close together

. Sistering two 2x4s will effectively make a 4x4.

Used to be framing was done 12" on center, then went to 16", eventually to 24" but the lumber size went from 2x4 to 2x6. Mostly that was for walls with more "depth" for insulation and since there was more supporting wood they could increase the span.

For structural framing (including floors and roofs) you can go with "smaller" lumber if you space them more closely. However at some point you need mid span support for horizontal, or nearly so, spans because it will sag. Your 10' "deep" roof will have a 1' overhang front and back and the "gap" the rafters are spanning ~7" under 8'. I would GUESS that 2x4s 12" apart would be OK. I wouldn't go to 16" unless you are using 2x6 or have a supported midline piece. And that would require posts inside the run. Better to overbuild and not have to worry it won't hold the snow load.

Even with that there is a limit of course. Snow generally doesn't slide off even more steeply pitched roofs. The roof on our prior house was a 10/12 (meaning 10" up for every 12" horizontal). That is fairly steep but snow never slid off the asphalt shingles unless it was melting. If you happen to have wind blowing in the 'right' direction, it might blow the snow off for you. Our winds are usually N or S with some component of west. Since the high side of your roof will be on the north, a south wind might nicely blow the roof clean. That happens on our house and barn roofs even though the buildings run N/S. Since you don't have a peak, the snow won't just blow over the top and land on the other side of the roof

You will have to deal with the side overhangs, they will need 'rafters' of their own. Often those overhangs are built like ladders and attached to the side of the building in line with the other rafters. Since this is nothing if not confusing, here is a picture I found with Google, turns out to be in a BYC post

Ignore the peaked part, just look at the "ladder" that will support the roof sheathing beyond the support of the walls so you can understand what I am talking about.



Also note that you will have to decide how you want to connect the rafters to the top plates (the top horizontal piece on the walls). Birds mouths are common, just a notch with the proper angles for the rafter to sit flat on top of the wall. Given the shallow slope of your roof, the bird will have a long horizontal cut and a short vertical. And unlike this picture, you will have 2 birds mouths on all the rafters since they will sit on the top plates on both sides rather than meeting a ridge pole at the top.



Also, they make metal pieces to connect the rafter to the plate, look at your big box hardware store. Of course you can nail or screw the rafters on directly.

Think about the vertical corners of your building before you start. You plan to use your material with the least amount of cutting and waste, right?

I agree on the 'top hinged" windows. We had some casements in our last house, can't open those even a bit in the rain. We have some awning (top hinge, open out) in the current house. They can't be opened all the way in the rain if there is wind but they can be cracked an inch or so. The opposite of that is a "hopper" window, hinged at the bottom but opens inward and rain that hits it will run off outside (again opened just a bit). A slider or double hung can't be opened much if at all in the rain either.

I also agree on having side opening access to the nest boxes. Not only do you not need to lift and support the weight of the top, you don't have the concern of how to seal the hinge area from rain. Plus, being that you aren't 7' tall, it would be easier to reach the eggs in the nest from the side. The door(s) can be relatively small, you want plenty of vertical wall below them to contain the nesting material and eggs when you open the door(s).

With regard to the chicken door: The PulletShut has a "second chance" feature. It will open for a few seconds after it closes. My chickens pretty much always head into the coop before it gets dark enough for the photocell to close the door. My coop is a converted stall in an ancient barn, the alley is their indoor run. Most days the barn door is open so even if we get home after dark I still have to go down to close the barn door and will count beaks on the roost. I've only found a girl on the outside a few times, and I think they were being bullied on the roost and chose to be outside the coop. I would collect them and put them on the roost.

Do you have a garden cart? Makes moving stuff like gravel and blocks a lot easier. Unlike a wheelbarrow, the load can be balanced over the axle so while you need to be able to push the weight, you don't need to lift it while moving it.

Regarding nest boxes, remember that you don't need one per hen. They generally won't be laying at the same time and PREFER to lay somewhere another egg has been laid. I guess that seems safer or something, it is also why people put fake eggs in the nests. Often you'll have several nests but not all are used on a given day. Some birds have their favorite nest and will get quite fussy if another girl is in "their" nest when they want to use it.

You want to make sure the roosts are HIGHER than the nest boxes, chickens usually roost as high as they can get. Some people plan for "easy to remove and clean" boxes but I see no need for that. If the birds don't sleep in the nests (they poop when they are asleep ... and when they aren't!) and they aren't walking on a carpet of wet poop, the nests will stay clean. Since your coop is elevated, I would have a 6" vertical separator between the coop floor and the floor of the nest boxes if they are at the same level. I would do a 6" vertical on the front of the nest boxes in any case. That leaves plenty of depth for nesting material (I use pine shavings) that doesn't get dragged out of the nests and floor material isn't dragged or kicked in.