Technical coop building question.

[aart]

Ok, dog shows are over now back to coop building. Kind of rainy yucky today so I thought I would attempt to build the people door to the run in the garage. But then I realized I have no idea how to make a door. So I dont have a kreg jig to countersink the screws so can I just toenail the joints, should I do 45 mitre cuts for the corners or should I just make square corners?

I bought 1x3 strapping for the screen doors because it was inexpensive and lightweight. They had better top choice 1x3 but is was 5 times the price. Will this be ok?

Also a question about the hardware cloth. My intention was to attach it to the wood frame using screw/washer method then have it sandwiched between another piece of lumber. This was very expensive and I could not find a good screw/washer combination last night at lowes with two employees trying to help me so I bought a big box of plastic cap roofing nails. Will this work? Could I just use staples or U nails if Im going to sandwich the cloth between two pieces of lumber? I want it to be safe for my chickens so I'd rather do it right initially.

Lots of questions today....thank you in advance for your continued help.

If you're going to sandwich the HC between two 2x4's screwed together...3/8" or 1/2" arrow staples are the way to go.

I'd not use 1x material for a door, not stiff enough.
What do your Wichita plans call for?

 

[TalkALittle]

Yes, toenail the joints on the door. I wouldn't bother with mitered corners, just go with square. I'd do corner braces like you did on your run walls and a horizontal cross piece for rigidity.

Here's a picture I shamelessly stole from the internet.

 

[aart]

Yes, toenail the joints on the door. I wouldn't bother with mitered corners, just go with square. I'd do corner braces like you did on your run walls and a horizontal cross piece for rigidity.

Here's a picture I shamelessly stole from the internet.

Great pic!
Note that is 2x lumber.

 

[Merrymouse]

@aart @Treerooted So my initial plan was to use 2x which I have but hubby said it would be too heavy since we plan on sandwiching the hardware cloth we would end up with a 4x door. Could I use the 2x and then just use the 1x strapping to sandwich the hardware cloth? I have both and haven't started yet. I dont really have a plan for the wichita. I downloaded his sketch up but I can't tell by looking at it what size lumber was used. I plan on doing the corner bracing shown in the picture. Thank you.

 

[TalkALittle]

I used two layers of 1x4 for my door with welded wire fencing sandwiched between. If you do similarly, you can omit the corner braces if you offset your corner joints. So say your door is 3'x6'. On one layer you will have 6' verticle pieces and the top and bottom horizontals will run between them. On the other layer the verticles will be shorter because the top and bottom horizontals will span the full 3'.

 

[Ridgerunner]

As always there are different ways to do this. You can go online and do a search on shed doors or something like that and see what they recommend, some have pretty detailed instructions. Mine don’t look exactly like what they show but the principles are the same.

You are obviously thinking of triangles, which is good. I don’t know how you are doing it but there is a real good chance that angle will not be exactly a 45. Mine never are. To me, it helps to think which diagonal is in tension, which is in compression. The diagonal running from the top hinge side to the outside bottom corner is in tension, you could use a cable and turnbuckle for this if you can figure out how to connect it. A relatively small piece of wood can work. In tension it doesn’t take much.

The top outside corner back to the lower hinge is in compression. This takes more. Think of a piece of notebook paper. If you pull on it, tension, it’s pretty strong. If you push on it, compression, it easily crumples and folds. Not much strength there.

I build the door frame first so I know what I’m working with. I’m a rough carpenter, certainly not a fine cabinetmaker that can precisely control angles and lengths. My corners may not always be perfectly square or sides exactly parallel, especially when I’m trying to fit something into a pre-existing building that may not be perfectly square to begin with.

I believe in substantial hardware too. My hinges are going to be oversized. I expect them to be able to take rough treatment.

When I start building a door I lay out the two horizontals the hinges will attach to, usually 1x4’s so they are wide enough so the hinges fit. I use plywood to form the door face though you can use 1x3’s or 1x4’s. The plywood gives you those stress lines in tension to help keep the door from sagging but plenty of people use boards. I screw them together. (I use boards for garden gates.) I use 3/8” plywood to keep the door a little lighter. ½” works too.

One problem I have with plywood is that I can’t see the board I’m screwing into. So I put the plywood on bottom, fit the boards, and screw long screws through the ends. When I turn it over, I draw a line between the screws to show where to put the shorter screws that don’t poke all the way through. Then I remove the long screws. So far, pretty easy.

Now comes the hard part. I cut a piece, probably 1x3 or 1x4, to go from the bottom of the top outside corner of that horizontal to the top of the hinge side of the bottom horizontal. This is the compression brace and needs to fit kind of tight, especially if you are using boards instead of plywood. The cut can be tricky as it is never exactly 45, sometimes not very close. I mark one cut and cut it. Then I fit that in, maybe sanding some to correct the fit, then mark the other cut. I may use the sander again to make that fit. The objective since it is in compression is that the diagonal firmly contacts the underside of the top horizontal and the top side of the bottom horizontal to keep it from sagging. Then I screw these on.

Next I attach two pieces of wood to form the tension line, from the top hinge corner to the diagonal, then from the other side of the diagonal on down to the bottom horizontal. Since these are in tension they don’t have to butt against the diagonal and the horizontals, they will pull away anyway. You probably don’t need this anyway, especially with plywood, but I use them to help stiffen the plywood so it doesn’t warp.

Next I attach the hinges to the door. I use nuts and bolts but I’m just going through plywood and the horizontal. Then I fit the door (can be challenging to hold it into place) and attach the hinges to the door frame, using long screws. This is something that can get you, you need to have something substantial in the door frame to screw the hinges into.

Then attach your lock and you are ready to go. I use a hasp on the outside so I can lock it against predators and a hook on the inside so I can lock it behind me when I go in to keep the chickens in. Whatever lock you use on the outside, make sure it cannot accidentally lock you inside. That could be embarrassing.

If you use plywood, it can wave because it is so thin. But if you use a lot of screws to attach it to the horizontals and diagonals, you stiffen it tremendously. You want that door stiff enough to act as one solid piece. You do not want it to bend or sag.

Of course there are all kinds of different ways to do this, some probably easier. The main idea is to make a door that is stiff enough in all planes so it doesn’t warp, bend, or twist, make sure it fits the frame, and make sure you can attach the hinges. It can be kind of tedious but it’s not really that hard once you get into it.

I usually use ¾” thick wood to attach mesh wire to a flat surface, usually ripping a 2x4 on my table saw.

Good luck.

 

[Merrymouse]

@TalkALittle Yes, great suggestion to overlap the corners and you explained it perfectly, thank you. Plus when i screw the two 1x boards together the screws will also go through the hardware cloth further securing it in place. I think I have it now. Probably a heck of a lot easier than doing he mitred corners too..

 

[Merrymouse]

@Ridgerunner Thank you for your detailed explanation. But I am talking about the people door to the run and plan on just making a frame with hardware cloth in the body of the door. For the other doors on the coop part I was planning to just cut a hole in my siding and use the siding as a door by framing it out with lumber and bracing it front and back to make it more rigid. I am using t11 siding or something similar. Thank you so much for your explanation, if I decide to do a "solid" type door I will be sure to refer back to this post.

 

[ScottandSam]

@Ridgerunner Thank you for your detailed explanation. But I am talking about the people door to the run and plan on just making a frame with hardware cloth in the body of the door. For the other doors on the coop part I was planning to just cut a hole in my siding and use the siding as a door by framing it out with lumber and bracing it front and back to make it more rigid. I am using t11 siding or something similar. Thank you so much for your explanation, if I decide to do a "solid" type door I will be sure to refer back to this post.

Ridgerunner was explaining a good way to make your other door with siding. You will also need a frame on your wall for the door and the hinges to get a good hold on the wall. if that don't make sense take ply wood out of directions and add you siding of choice in where he says plywood. That will help keep you door working correctly in all seasons as the wood swells.

Scott

 

[Merrymouse]

As always there are different ways to do this. You can go online and do a search on shed doors or something like that and see what they recommend, some have pretty detailed instructions. Mine don’t look exactly like what they show but the principles are the same.

You are obviously thinking of triangles, which is good. I don’t know how you are doing it but there is a real good chance that angle will not be exactly a 45. Mine never are. To me, it helps to think which diagonal is in tension, which is in compression. The diagonal running from the top hinge side to the outside bottom corner is in tension, you could use a cable and turnbuckle for this if you can figure out how to connect it. A relatively small piece of wood can work. In tension it doesn’t take much.

The top outside corner back to the lower hinge is in compression. This takes more. Think of a piece of notebook paper. If you pull on it, tension, it’s pretty strong. If you push on it, compression, it easily crumples and folds. Not much strength there.

I build the door frame first so I know what I’m working with. I’m a rough carpenter, certainly not a fine cabinetmaker that can precisely control angles and lengths. My corners may not always be perfectly square or sides exactly parallel, especially when I’m trying to fit something into a pre-existing building that may not be perfectly square to begin with.

I believe in substantial hardware too. My hinges are going to be oversized. I expect them to be able to take rough treatment.

When I start building a door I lay out the two horizontals the hinges will attach to, usually 1x4’s so they are wide enough so the hinges fit. I use plywood to form the door face though you can use 1x3’s or 1x4’s. The plywood gives you those stress lines in tension to help keep the door from sagging but plenty of people use boards. I screw them together. (I use boards for garden gates.) I use 3/8” plywood to keep the door a little lighter. ½” works too.

One problem I have with plywood is that I can’t see the board I’m screwing into. So I put the plywood on bottom, fit the boards, and screw long screws through the ends. When I turn it over, I draw a line between the screws to show where to put the shorter screws that don’t poke all the way through. Then I remove the long screws. So far, pretty easy.

Now comes the hard part. I cut a piece, probably 1x3 or 1x4, to go from the bottom of the top outside corner of that horizontal to the top of the hinge side of the bottom horizontal. This is the compression brace and needs to fit kind of tight, especially if you are using boards instead of plywood. The cut can be tricky as it is never exactly 45, sometimes not very close. I mark one cut and cut it. Then I fit that in, maybe sanding some to correct the fit, then mark the other cut. I may use the sander again to make that fit. The objective since it is in compression is that the diagonal firmly contacts the underside of the top horizontal and the top side of the bottom horizontal to keep it from sagging. Then I screw these on.

Next I attach two pieces of wood to form the tension line, from the top hinge corner to the diagonal, then from the other side of the diagonal on down to the bottom horizontal. Since these are in tension they don’t have to butt against the diagonal and the horizontals, they will pull away anyway. You probably don’t need this anyway, especially with plywood, but I use them to help stiffen the plywood so it doesn’t warp.

Next I attach the hinges to the door. I use nuts and bolts but I’m just going through plywood and the horizontal. Then I fit the door (can be challenging to hold it into place) and attach the hinges to the door frame, using long screws. This is something that can get you, you need to have something substantial in the door frame to screw the hinges into.

Then attach your lock and you are ready to go. I use a hasp on the outside so I can lock it against predators and a hook on the inside so I can lock it behind me when I go in to keep the chickens in. Whatever lock you use on the outside, make sure it cannot accidentally lock you inside. That could be embarrassing.

If you use plywood, it can wave because it is so thin. But if you use a lot of screws to attach it to the horizontals and diagonals, you stiffen it tremendously. You want that door stiff enough to act as one

When I do my other doors for the coop, the solid type doors I will do it exactly as you suggeted. I especially appreciated the way you explained tension etc, using the notebook reference. I would have never understood this without that reference. You explained everything perfectly

Thank you so much

Ridgerunner was explaining a good way to make your other door with siding. You will also need a frame on your wall for the door and the hinges to get a good hold on the wall. if that don't make sense take ply wood out of directions and add you siding of choice in where he says plywood. That will help keep you door working correctly in all seasons as the wood swells.

Scott

Yes, I will do exactly as Ridgerunner suggested but Im probably going to use my siding as the main part of door. Thanks