Tell me about your internal layers

[vicki2x2]

One of my 4-H family showed me one of their hens last night, she definitely looks like an internal layer. I guess it has been going on for a month or two. She must be about 3 ish, hatchery bird, huge, huge swollen abdomen. Other birds wouldn't let her in the coop, they found her outside and her comb was getting frostbit, so they set up her up in their "hospital/quarantine pen" with a rooster friend and she has been living in there. They said since she has been in there, she has laid one, rubbery egg. Nothing else. They said as long as she seems to be ok, they will let her keep going, but will cull if she seems to be suffering. As of now, her comb looked decent color, she was eating ok, hard to walk well with that giant belly, but she managed. I haven't had one (yet) so any advice for this family?

 

[Terri O]

I had a hen that was a production red from a hatchery (I bought her from someone so I dont know which) I thought she was an internal layer because I had had another from the same batch that I did a necropsy on; but I found that she had ascites. THis is what the hen with the huge belly sounds like to me. I stuck a large gauge needle in mine and drained her out. I got A LOT of fluid. I watched her for a few days inside and returned her to the coop. I cant differentiate her from the rest now!
I would have the family feel and see if their hen seems really squishy (like a water balloon) around the belly and not hard. That is what mine was like. Terri O

 

[vicki2x2]

Interesting Terri, thanks, I will do that today!

 

[Terri O]

You are most welcome...I hope it turns out well!

 

[FRlEDeggs]

I'm confused, what exactly IS internal laying/egg binding?

 

[Cynlynian]

Hiya, New to the forum

I started with 6 Red Shavers, point of lay pullets (16 weeks) from a breeder in July 2008. One hen dropped dead about a year ago for no reason that I could figure. Another had a blowout (after laying HUGE eggs) which responded well to anitbiotics and KY jelly, rubber gloves to replace. currently I am getting 1-2 eggs from 4 hens.

I have a very sad hen that has been sick for maybe 5-6 weeks. Firstly started fluffing up, being lethargic, walking slow - BUT came running at food time. I took her to the vet about 3 weeks ago - he didnt know what was wrong so suggested worming and grit, separated her from the others. She weighed 1.5 kg.

As we are into winter here (NZ) she ended up inside. got weaker and weaker, I had to hold food and water for her to drink. She couldnt stand very well, kept doing the splits and face planting. Her poohs were runny and smelly, green, yellow. Her tummy was swollen and she waddled like a duck. I thought maybe egg bound but vet couldnt feel in an internal, and I tried the warm bath several times.

Went back to vet and asked for antibiotics as she was beginning to show signs of respiratory distress (wheezing), which I injected, she began to improve. Second lot of antibiotics and she has begun to improve. Then one morning I found 6 large white/grey things in her cage - about the consistencey of raw mushrooms or boiled egg white - made up of layers of curd or white??? WEIRD - what is it?? Is this internal laying?

She now has improved even more, her tail up, been outside in the garden and scratching around.

I was getting a lot of soft shell and membrane only eggs, then one (not sure which) Hen began to eat these eggs, which suggested lack of calcium so have upped grit. They free range, on layers pellets, wheat at night, plus greens, scraps in morning


cheers

cynthia

 

[chickenlady08]

I have been watching this thread fo a couple days. I have had a Delaware chicken that is 15 months old. She has been seperated from the rest of the flock for a while now. It started at first to cause the separation because of the abuse that my Delaware Jack was doing to her. He really liked her and was quite rough with her. Well he pulled out and broke alot of feathers and so she was lookin pretty bad and she had lost all of her feathers in her bum area. I brought her into the garage and she has been seperated for several months. The feathers have grown back around her neck and shoulders and back but not her bum. Her rear is firm and she had laid a few eggs but has now totally stopped altogether. I took her to the vet this morning and sure enough it was what I had been reading about and she has a calcified egg inside of her and she sees more yokes in there as well. She is going to do surgery on her today. She said she hopes she can go up in there with her hand and break the egg but if not she will have to remove it surgically. She told me 'She is a chicken' and I said if I didn't want to find out and fix what was wrong then I would not have brought her here.' Delawares are not a very large breed anymore so I figured that 1. I love her and she is my pet. 2. if I would do it for my other pets 'cats' and 'dog' then I will do it for my 'chicken'

I am so sad right now, but I feel that she is going to be ok. And I am not even worried about how much she is going to charge me to help get her straight. I just hope she does ok and the surgery isn't to hard on her.

So anyone else who has this problem going on I completely understand how you are feeling. I am sorry and hope ur girls are ok.

I will update after I hear from the vet this afternoon. they are short handed today so she said it would be lunchtime before she prob be able to operate.

 

[speckledhen]

Here is part of an article on Egg Yolk Peritionitis--that term plus internal laying, false laying, salpingitis, these all are reproductive malfunctions causing stuff to be where it shouldn't inside the hen. Bolded words mine and are what I've experienced in my own flock.

Egg Yolk Peritonitis
Egg yolk peritonitis (the presence of yolk material in the coelomic cavity) is a common cause of abdominal distension in birds. Yolk material by itself induces a mild inflammatory response and may be reabsorbed by the peritoneum. Because yolk is an excellent growth medium for bacteria, peritonitis may result from secondary bacterial infection. Localized to diffuse fibrinous peritonitis may result, and may lead to secondary ascites and organ inflammation or compromise in chronic cases.

Egg peritonitis is characterized by fibrin or albumen-like material with a cooked appearance among the abdominal viscera. It is a common cause of sporadic deaths, but in some flocks may become the major cause of death and give the appearance of a contagious disease. It is diagnosed at necropsy.

Lodgment of eggs in the oviduct was probably due to reverse peristalsis brought about by breakage of the thin-shelled eggs and secondary bacterial infection. Peritonitis follows reverse movement of albumen and Escherichia coli bacteria from the oviduct into the abdomen. If the incidence is high, culture should be done to differentiate between Pasteurella (fowl cholera) or Salmonella infection.

When hens have too many large ovarian follicles, a problem described as erratic oviposition and defective egg syndrome (EODES) is seen in broiler breeders.

Herbal AntibioticsThis condition is accompanied by a high incidence of double-yolked eggs, prolapses of the oviduct, internal ovulation, and/or internal laying that often results in egg peritonitis and mortality. EODES is prevented by avoiding light stimulation of underweight pullets too early and following body weight and lighting recommendations for each breeder strain. Overweight hens may also have a higher incidence of erratic ovulations and mortality associated with egg peritonitis.

Clinical Signs:
Sudden death, loss of appetite/anorexia, weakness, depression, respiratory distress, lethargy, fluffed feathers, lack of vocalizations, yolk-colored droppings, swollen vent and/or abdomen (the swelling feels spongy to the touch), and ascites. Some of these symptoms also mimic egg binding. Ascites is most commonly seen in cockatiels and waterfowl.

Nesting behavior or recent egg laying is commonly reported at presentation. Abdominal wall herniation may be a complication in cases of extreme abdominal distension secondary to increased coelomic pressure. Although ascites is not present in all birds with egg yolk peritonitis, fluid evaluation may be diagnostic when ascites is a presenting clinical sign. Grossly, the fluid is slightly yellow to yellow, with possible visualization visualization of yolk material and protein strands. The fluid may appear noninflammatory (as in this case) or inflammatory, with or without sepsis. Typical findings would be only yolk or fat globules in the former case and a mixture of heterophils, macrophages, lymphocytes, fat globules, and yolk globules with or without bacteria in the latter case.

.......

GRAPHIC PIC BELOW!

This is the cooked material they are talking about, we removed from one of my hens who died from this stuff. I've lost several to it and am losing more as I write, same darn thing. And I drained 156 cc of yellowish fluid from one of them the other day, poor girl.

 

[Cynlynian]

Thanks for the info. I will pass it on to my vet - he didnt seem to know much about the problem, although we only have two bird vets in NZ

I've come to the conclusion that my girl has the internal laying problem, and the 'weird things' that she passed has helped her a bit, along with the antibiotics. I can feel another egg sized lump on one side of her abdomen, which hasnt responded to massage and a 1/2hr soak in warm water bath.

I guess I will have to consider culling her as she isnt going to get better. I just need to figure how now. Any hints anyone???
I really dont want her to suffer more - she has been unwell for so long. I only kept her going because she seems to keep wanting to eat and is reasonably bright eyed. *sigh*

Cynthia

 

[speckledhen]

From one Cynthia to another, I'm sorry about your girl. My four-and-a-half year old Ivy has been in bad shape three times and she is the one I've drained all that fluid out of I mentioned in my post above. She recovered twice and each time began laying again, but this time will be her last, I'm sure. The first two times, heavy penicillin doses fixed the issue. This time, it didn't. It is recurring, unfortunately. Just draining the fluid from Ivy massively improved her color and overall outlook. I would be tempted try the pen again if she had any breast meat to put the needle into and if I thought it would do any good. When she becomes too weak an uninterested in life, we will help her along, but it will be really hard.