Thanks for Giving

[Resolution]

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Yes- absolutely- Mule Deer, Wapiti, White Tail, Black Bear, Canada Goose - and Judge Judy- there's been lots of awesome Thanksgiving feastage going on.

Are black walnuts from this hemisphere?

 

[7L Farm]

I can think of one critter I wish wasn't on this planet. Their good to eat but impossible to control.

 

[JulieNKC]

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Yes- absolutely- Mule Deer, Wapiti, White Tail, Black Bear, Canada Goose - and Judge Judy- there's been lots of awesome Thanksgiving feastage going on.

Are black walnuts from this hemisphere?

Yes, there are tons in my backyard. They aren't commercially harvested normally though, too hard, therefore pretty expensive. The ones usually used are english walnuts.

 

[Resolution]

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Looks like two very happy guys with a pile of feral pigs they've just harvested. That's a whole lot of of pig. Where does all that meat go? Who processes it?

Wow- forgot all about the European Boar.

The European Boar is very important species in the development of European culture as it was one of the only consistent sources of meat for the peoples of Western Europe and regions of Russia where winter snow cover or freezing rain made cattle domestication less feasible. This was a matter of routine from ~ 11,000 years ago into well into the 19th century AD. Indeed, the first European colonialists to arrive in this hemisphere carried swine everywhere they went. That's how important the meat of pigs were to colonialists. In typical agricultural fashion Domesticated pigs were refined and carefully select bred for food -but there were probably feral pigs, descendants of escaped (and then fairly primitive races of domestic swine) established in parts of the south by mid 19th century. Boar hunts were as popular then as they are today.

Strangely, importing wild boars from Europe and Russia for release on game farms was a very popular past time until it was formally banned in the 1970's.

That's something to reflect on- the introduction of a familiar European species introduced to the USA for sports hunting that has interbred with every hurricane, flood and tornado survivor domestic hog-Big business in hog hunting.

What was the name of the endemic pigs once native to much of North America- oh yeah Peccaries- not really a pig at all but outwardly similar- almost entirely displaced by habitat destruction, overhunting and of course dying fromEuropean swine diseases.

 

[SourRoses]

Uhhh... alot of those things in the first post are not native to America. Like tomatoes. Definitely not chocolate, LOL!

Many things were imported early on, and used by indians, yes... just like horses and rifles. But they came by ship.

 

[JulieNKC]

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I think chocolate is mexican/south american. Pretty sure tomatoes are american too...

 

[SourRoses]

From Wikipedia...

"The tomato is native to South America. Genetic evidence shows the progenitors of tomatoes were herbaceous green plants with small green fruit and a center of diversity in the highlands of Peru.[2][3] One species, Solanum lycopersicum, was transported to Mexico, where it was grown and consumed by Mesoamerican civilizations. The exact date of domestication is not known. The first domesticated tomato may have been a little yellow fruit, similar in size to a cherry tomato, grown by the Aztecs of Central Mexico.[4][unreliable source?] The word "tomato" comes from the Nahuatl word tomatl, literally "the swelling fruit".[5]

Spanish explorer Cortés may have been the first to transfer the small yellow tomato to Europe after he captured the Aztec city of Tenochtítlan, now Mexico City, in 1521, although Christopher Columbus, a Genoese working for the Spanish monarchy, may have taken them back as early as 1493. The earliest discussion of the tomato in European literature appeared in an herbal written in 1544 by Pietro Andrea Mattioli, an Italian physician and botanist, who named it pomo d’oro, or "golden apple".[3]:13

The earliest reference to tomatoes being grown in British North America is from 1710, when herbalist William Salmon reported seeing them in what is today South Carolina.[3]:25 They may have been introduced from the Caribbean. By the mid-18th century, they were cultivated on some Carolina plantations, and probably in other parts of the Southeast as well. Possibly, some people continued to think tomatoes were poisonous at this time; and in general, they were grown more as ornamental plants than as food. Thomas Jefferson, who ate tomatoes in Paris, sent some seeds back to America."

Chocolate...

"The cacao tree is native to the Americas. It may have originated in the foothills of the Andes in the Amazon and Orinoco basins of South America, current day Venezuela, where today, examples of wild cacao still can be found. However, it may have had a larger range in the past, evidence for which may be obscured because of its cultivation in these areas long before, as well as after, the Spanish arrived. It was first cultivated by the Olmecs at least 1500 BC in Central America."

Keep in mind that the Americas is not the same as "America". Both these items were more likely to be propogated by the Mayans then the Indians of the US.
Just sayin! No offense intended

 

[Resolution]

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Tomatoes

Chocolate


Every single item listed in the first post are endemic to the Americas. They were unknown to westerners until European seafarers carried them to Europe during the 16th Century AD.
One of the primary reasons Europeans were searching the seas for treasure, is that their own resources were dwindling and the peasant class far outnumbered that of the aristocracy. Nevertheless, the rich owned all the wealth. The "New World" gave opportunities to the poorest- indeed- many colonial continents- Australia and the Americas were first populated by prisoners and other social outcasts. The lives of the first explorers or rather their indentured servants - the first wave of colonialists were considered less valuable than those radiations from Europe arriving on these shores much later. European cultural imperialism could not take root until after native inhabitants had been subjugated and driven from subsequent historical record. Very few people know the countries of origin of our most utilised crop species.

They'll assume potatoes came from Ireland and the Italians domesticated the tomato... but alas, this is not the case. Why would they assume anything different? Thanksgiving holiday has never been one celebrating the bounty of the indigenous culture.

To be clear, this thread is not intended as a polemic about genocide or cultural imperialism lest anyone suggest otherwise. Those parameters are like salt and pepper- not the meat and potatoes of the topic.


Wheat, onions, garlic, beets, parsnips, cilantro, parsley, mint, oregano, thyme- there are so many uniquely "Old World" crops and herbs we also give thanks for. I thought we could start giving thanks to the cornucopia of this hemisphere and then give thanks to the other parts of the world that contributed other crops and spices we take for granted as American or even European- for example, cucumbers, lentils and black pepper originate originally in India. Artichokes and coriander (cilantro), marjoram (oregano), cabbage, lettuce, radishes all originally from Egypt. Watermelon, coffee, sesame and millet from further south in East Africa- present day Eastern Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia. Olives, wheat and sheep from the Near East -Every migrant in the country from the English to the Chinese, the Germans to the Irish, the Jews, the Greeks, East Indians, West Africans, the Dutch, the Spanish, the Italians- all have contributed something wonderful to our tables- that nourish our families and communities- and that we tend to take for granted- though that's just an observation- the fun- is to learn where things we do so often take for granted actually came from and ask ourselves what if anything we know about the cultures that developed the crops we have all claimed in one way or another as our own.

 

[SourRoses]

The links that you posted are the same pages that I quoted above

All I was saying, as the articles reiterate... is that Chocolate and Tomatoes, at the very least, and probably a few more items than that... were brought to America from South America. They were not bred and cultured by Native Americans, but rather by Native South Americans. They are different Peoples

Corn and Turkeys.. Yes those at least, and more items also, were bred and cultured by Native Americans. It is nice to appreciate the various peoples who have had a hand in selecting items and animals for our use

 

[Resolution]

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Goofy Minds Think Alike!

Please reread my initial post. I'm speaking about this hemisphere- both continents- they are one and the same so far as Thanks Giving is concerned. What will be on your table or in the fridge for left overs from this holiday - originated in the America(s) ? That's what I'm imparting here. The indigenous peoples of this hemisphere are all "Native Americans". We don't call some Native North Americans. The only difference beyond their diversity of original cultures- though same ethnic and racial tap root, is that today those in the northern continent speak French and English. Those in the southern continent speak Portuguese and Spanish. Those of Central America speak their native tongues first and Spanish second ( this is also the case many parts of Canada, Alaska, Peru, Bolivia, Chile and Hawaii). The thing we tend to gloss over is that these languages all came from parts of Europe.. Many of the crops of South America were known in Europe before they were established in North America. Regardless, many thousands of years of "Native American" culture selectively bred and refined these crops, cotton and the turkey to the degree of high domestication before the European conquerors ever set foot in the "New World".

There is no little irony in the fact that two continents with over twenty million people living on each could be "discovered". How does that happen? I want to discover Palm Springs and make spring break hotties my minions!

But today when I ask people seated at my table where each of the foods in the cornucopia are derived they very often draw a blank. The concept is even alien.
The guy on your left complaining about illegals loves his mashed potatoes and the lady on the right - his wife, makes her special chocolate mousse pie every year- and yet both are ignorant of the contributions made cultures that they feel are intruding upon their American traditions.

But where would Mexican food be without the flat bread (made from wheat), the basil, the cilantro, the onion and garlic- of the Mediterranean? It's not a one-sided food basket- my thinking is that we cover vast distances in that divide between cultures when we take the time to give thanks to the contributions of "others" and really reflect on the uniqueness of each culture- it's historical timescale- its origins - its art, music, poetry- and demise- very often- its demise- its ultimate diffusion.

Who better than Meso-Americans to tend to tomatoes in the fields of Georgia? Who better than Swedish-Americans to grow wheat in the wheatbelt?