The Aloha Chicken Project

[HEChicken]

I've done no-till, deep mulch method for several years - using hay, chopped up leaves, grass clippings, etc - they worked to some extent, but didn't keep the soil moist underneath.
Perhaps I didn't put it on thick enough, and I certainly went through many years of a hard time direct-sowing small seeds, due to the mulch.
And if I pulled back the mulch to sow seeds, then the weeds would also germinate!

Oh yes, you definitely have to pull the mulch back to sow seeds! The idea with the deep mulch is to make it so deep a layer that weed seeds don't germinate because they can't get enough light. So using the same logic, our veggie seeds won't germinate without light either. What I did was to build the layer of mulch over a period of months, adding to it whenever I had organic materials. Consequently it is an irregular layer as here it is straw, there, hay, there chipped tomato plants etc. By the start of this spring, the layer was about 6" deep over the entire garden. Then, when I want to plant, I pull back the mulch just in the spot I want to plant. I mean, really just a small hole in it, enough that light will be able to get through. I plant my seed but leave the mulch pulled back until the seed germinates. Once it becomes a seedling, the mulch is piled back around its stem.

I've found that it works quite well as a weed deterrent. The nature of gardening means I'll never get out of weeding altogether, but compared to when I started the garden, my weeding efforts are quite minimal these days. I'm constantly reminded of the quote from Jurassic Park - "Life will find a way". Weed seeds will still try to germinate even though all that mulch. In fact, sometimes the mulch itself contains the seeds - for example, grass seeds from within the hay. But they're quite easy to see and pull and I'm finding that about 20 minutes every other day allows me to pull all the weeds in a garden area that is about 50' long and 16' wide.

I find that the soil underneath stays really moist. I did have the mulch out there this winter so any snow we got (not much) melted through it, but then we had an extremely dry March and April. I expected the moisture content to be low under the mulch but when I started to plant my seeds I was surprised to find how moist it was. This month we've had about 10" total rain so far and we're finding the mulch is keeping it almost too moist now. The same action that holds the moisture IN, preventing it evaporating on the hot summer days, is also keeping the moisture in when we have it in abundance and the poor little roots are a bit water-logged. Most of my garden is still at the tender seedling stage because with too much rain and not enough sun, they haven't had the conditions they would like to really take off and start growing. I'm ready for the weather to warm up and dry out just a little

A tip for you if you are looking for things to use your chipper on. Last year I grew a LOT of tomatoes. At the end of the season, I pulled the plants and piled them up outside my veggie garden fence. I let my goats out to free-range sometimes in the evenings and they found the pile. I was a bit concerned about them eating it since the tomato plant is in the nightshade family and I worried it was toxic. But they ate it in huge quantities and never got sick so I guess its okay for them. My doe was pregnant at the time and her kids arrived healthy too! Anyway, I turned the pile for them a couple of times so they could get all the foliage and eventually the pile was stripped to just the stems. I left them to dry out for several weeks and then ran them through my leaf shredder, which also does small sticks. It chipped them and then I used the chips as mulch in the garden area. That has been the BEST mulch so far. No weeds have tried to grow through it at all. I wasn't sure about its qualities as mulch around new plants, so I laid it on one of my walkways between beds, just in case, but I'm really impressed with it. At least I know what I'll be doing with tomato plants in the future!

 

[myfivegirls]

Thanks for sharing. Yes, I'd pull back the mulch to sow seeds, but awhile ago when I doing "Lasagna gardening", it was hard to find a layer that was actually dirt or compost, especially when it was a "new" bed.
When we moved, we brought with us 75 - 80 cubic yards of compost that the chickens had been making for several years. It is beautiful, rich compost, but it does contain some weed seeds like lamb's quarter.
That's probably because in our previous garden we'd let it grow & later harvest it for the chickens and rabbits. So, the seeds got mixed in and are now sprouting!
There's a marked difference in the beds that are covered with the wood mulch and those that we left bare, so I could easily sow seeds - kind of like a "seedling bed", from which I could later transplant them into the other beds.
The first sowing from early April I didn't have a hose out there yet, so the seeds didn't germinate well. I re-sowed on top of the partially decomposed "fine" mulch, which I know they'll germinate in, because I've had lettuce, parsley & kale self-sow in it the past few years.

I couldn't chip up tomato plants, as in the past we've had blight issues - so they've had to be thrown out to now spread it. I've grown lots of tomatoes in the past, but due to the blight issue and now we're located in a valley, I'm not doing many / perhaps just a few for fresh eating. Usually, we grow enough to make salsa and can it, but since it's the first year gardening in this new location, I mainly want to focus on plants that don't have as many "issues".
We've had a very dry spring - actually had some pretty hot weather - high 80's in early May; but yesterday it was low 50's and today it might get to 60. Friday night we're supposed to get a frost.

Which we can have up until June, but warm weather made us think it wouldn't happen this year.


Well, we're off-topic here, so we better let the Aloha Chicken Project have their thread back! Speaking of which, I've enjoyed watching the progression though the years, and it's inspired me with the Catskill Homesteader project I'm working on.
Different goals, but the similarity of partially breeding for "eye candy" chickens. I wish there was a way to get some Alohas to NY or help with the project, but temps / location are a challenge.
If @alohachickens has any tips of how to get other people to help out with the breeding project (Alohas or Catskill Homesteaders), that would be greatly appreciated. I like the idea of having extra hands, locations, breeding groups that are all working together, but not exactly sure how to go about it.

 

[Deerfield Acres]

HEChicken, just a suggestion on the wood chips in the coop. It is my understanding that soil in the wood mulch is necessary for the bio activity that breaks down all the poo from the chickens. Without it, I think you would have some smelly mulch. I like going in the coop and smelling that earthy smell. When it starts smelling like chicken poo, it's time to shovel half out and replace it. I never shovel it all because all that microbe activity from the first half gets the second half working in short order. Great tip on the tomato plants, I'm going to use that! We've been talking about getting a chipper because we have so many branches from the Elms and the cedar trees.

Okay, just a couple points on the wood chips. I had DH till them in to hasten decomp because I was leaving the garden fallow. Innoculating the soil with mychorrizae (sp?) helps breakdown the woodchips faster without tilling. YouTube vid Growing Your Greens has an excellent vid about a place that uses wood chips that way. Anyway, it sat without any planting for 2 years, this is year 3. While it may be a bit premature to plant, most of the chips have broken down and the Strawberries are going wild in there and just planted them this year. We've been harvesting for 2 weeks and will continue to as they are everbearing. These were mature transplants from my little section of garden they were planted in with no mulch. Transplanted to raised beds. The tomatoes are doing well, but the peppers are not impressed. Beans are happy enough but would do better with warmer temps. Of course it's been ridiculously cool for this time of year. Except for that warm spell beginning of April that made me think it was time to plant.

The soil in the beds came from the rows in between the raised beds (decomp wood chips) and we refilled the rows with woodchips. You will love them for walkways, they become spongy. I only tilled because I was going to leave it unplanted. Still, I planted potatoes directly into the tilled soil with great success last year, putting lime in the bottom of their planting holes to counteract the effect of the wood chips in the soil. Fantastic results!

If you till the chips in, they will suck all the nitrogen from the soil and starve your plants. Now that they've mostly decomposed they help hold moisture in the soil but with the raised beds they still drain well enough not to saturate it with the rains. Even with this being my first year garden, I have TONS of weeds coming up, but I only care about what's in the beds -- wood chips (creating more garden soil) have the rest covered and DH will till them if the weeds get carried away.

I've started a second garden area with wood chips and we raked all the old algae from our dried up pond (before the rains started) and used that as well. I will probably not till this ground but will double dig the areas (with lots of help) where I put raised beds. It's much easier to weed in the raised beds vs. the entire garden.

 

[HEChicken]

Great discussion - sorry Alohachickens for hijacking the thread! Unfortunately chickens are but one of my passions

Thanks to both Myfivegirls and Deerfield for sharing your experiences!

As Deerfield mentioned, it has been unseasonably cool here in KS this month. I thought I would have made progress on the next generation of Alohas by now but the weather really isn't cooperating. Sigh. Maybe June will be my month.

Myfivegirls - being so far away is certainly a challenge. I was fortunate to be able to visit Alohachickens two years ago and have several locals (Deerfield and two others) with whom to share discussion about the project. It would be nice for you if a few others in your area wanted to get involved.

 

[alohachickens]

Well, we're off-topic here, so we better let the Aloha Chicken Project have their thread back! Speaking of which, I've enjoyed watching the progression though the years, and it's inspired me with the Catskill Homesteader project I'm working on.
Different goals, but the similarity of partially breeding for "eye candy" chickens. I wish there was a way to get some Alohas to NY or help with the project, but temps / location are a challenge.
If @alohachickens has any tips of how to get other people to help out with the breeding project (Alohas or Catskill Homesteaders), that would be greatly appreciated. I like the idea of having extra hands, locations, breeding groups that are all working together, but not exactly sure how to go about it.

I'm just jealous that y'all have mulch to talk about! LOL. It's hard to compost here in the desert, everything gets so dry.

But there are some very small windows when Alohas may slip out to NY. Just a matter of timing. Our temps and the back east temps are so hard to mesh. And then we have the weird weather moments. Like back in February we were in the 90's - that is freakishly warm for Phoenix and too hot to ship out, when normally it would be borderline too cold, even here in Phoenix! (Normal February lows are 60-70 daytime, around 35-45 at night. Under 40 degrees at any time during the trip and the Post Office won't ship.) But last week, we had freakishly COOL temps, for Phoenix in May, like an unheard-of high 70's - low 80's. On those few days, I actually could have shipped - in May - to points back east. That's practically unheard of! Very rare in May, but the lower temps do happen here and there in April, in Phoenix.

So the key would be having the shipping boxes here, a willing victim, and constant weekly hatches of chicks. Best odds would be in March-April or late September or early October, but other shipping times are possible here or there. Keep a constant eye on the weather and if the window happens, go for it.

The more reliable option that can be planned for, is for someone who wants to be involved, to start working on a good "base" of hens. The biggest issue with shipped eggs, and why I prefer to send chicks, is rarely can you hatch enough birds from shipped eggs to get a REAL start on a breeding program like this. However, if for example, someone back East started gathering the "outside" breeds they need - like Speckled Sussex, high quality New Hampshire (heritage or German lines) and non-crested non-blue carrying Swedish Flower Hens, then all you'd need is a few Aloha eggs. And I could do more focused breeding pens that can help the "base stock" along.

Example, if someone ordered a full batch of 25 Speckled Sussex from Meyer (we had good birds from them before, big and very spotty) and they raised the hens to about 4 months and picked out the 10 most-spotty hens, then I could collect eggs from my super colorful and lightest colored Alohas. You'd only need to hatch a couple of roosters, to make this work. Pen half the Sussex with one Aloha rooster, the other half Sussex with the other Aloha rooster, keep chicks from both pens, and mix 'em up the next year. Pick out the best and keep going.

If someone had New Hampshire Reds, I'd make sure I picked out my most SPOTTY chickens, even ones with pink legs, as the yellow legs from the New Hampshires would correct that in a few generations. I'd also probably include some Speckled Sussex / Aloha crosses, to keep size up.

If someone had Swedish Flowers, I could give them cross breeds like Buff Sussex / spotty Aloha mixes, knowing the Swedish would bring the spots back even if the Aloha cross was "solid".

I'm against randomly shipping out eggs, though, because typically I've given them away for free, and honestly it's a lot of work and effort to pack them and go to the Post Office for someone who is going to give up and not follow through for at least a year or two. But it's entirely a different story if someone takes the effort to build up a "starter flock". That tells me they have enough interest that they actually might follow through. Most people, sadly, just do not.

That's why my program's ultimate goal will be to try and get some Alohas to a commercial hatchery, if I can, because most starter projects and starter breeds just fade out when left to private hands. It's too exhausting to try and keep this going long term, all by myself.

It will be interesting to see if the eggs that I sent to Deerfield break or if any hatch. I've had bad luck with shipped eggs in the past, but Draye's hatch was surprisingly good. If Deerfield has good results this could be promising.

In general, my own experience with shipped eggs has been very tough! However I was lucky with the shipped Cinnamon Sussex eggs from Paul's Rare Poultry, and I'm grateful he did take the trouble to post those for sale on Ebay. (I got lucky there and got them for I think $20, on his Web site he was charging $40 per dozen.) I got five to hatch (amazing for shipped eggs) and two carried Dun. (The batch was split, dun rooster with Light Sussex hens.)

The chicks from that line have been lovely. I've only got the spots on the one chick so far, but it's promising! Glad he made the eggs available to outside folks.

 

[alohachickens]

Ooops, I was wrong, the Dun Sussex are normally $55 per dozen! Yowza!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...rtile-chicken-hatching-eggs-shipping-is-extra

He put some eggs on Ebay with like a $20 starting bid, and I snagged them. After that he raised the starting bid! No more "cheap egg" bargains after that. LOL.

I have not seen any other auctions or sales or comments, in the last 2 years. Wonder if he's still breeding them?

Deerfield may get some Dun in there! Three of the hens carry it. Can't wait to see that Dun color on a darker mottled pattern. (like a Dun Speckled Sussex!)

Anyway, turns out he was located in California, just one state over, which explains why I got such a decent hatch rate on these eggs!

 

[Deerfield Acres]

alohachickens, thanks for your patience while we discussed our mulch.

YOWZA! $55 is a lot for shipped eggs! You stole those eggs from him!

Back to our regularly scheduled programming. Here are pics of the chicks I just hatched. These are the mixes from my Buff Sussex roo over my Aloha girl, my Aloha/EE mix and the Speckled Sussex (hatchery).


Now look at this one! Beautiful! I'm praying it's a pullet!



I believe this is my lightest Speckled Sussex cross. I believe it's a cockerel.



Seriously, I did not expect all this white from these chicks. This is the first cross with my Buff Sussex roo, all him, no other roos on the ground. I finally got around to counting the mixes -- I have 15! The Buff Sussex appeared to carry spots as babies, they had very faint spotting. These have some real spotting but who knows if they will keep it.



That darker bird on the left toward the back looks to have EE influence, maybe even puffy cheeks from the kids puffy/heavily spotted Aloha/EE hen Maddie. Another of the darker chicks has that rusty red coming in on the wing like an EE cockerel.

 

[Deerfield Acres]

Here is my excessively white Speckled from Walt'z. Love this little thing. Look at the width between the legs -- that's just what we need to create good, long term layers.

Sorry, blurry cell phone pic but you get the idea. I hope and pray this one makes it because I'm already attached.

 

[alohachickens]

Here is my excessively white Speckled from Walt'z. Love this little thing. Look at the width between the legs -- that's just what we need to create good, long term layers.

Sorry, blurry cell phone pic but you get the idea. I hope and pray this one makes it because I'm already attached.

Look at all the white on that wing! Of course a total fault for SSX - but wow that would be awesome for Alohas!!!

 

[alohachickens]

alohachickens, thanks for your patience while we discussed our mulch.

YOWZA! $55 is a lot for shipped eggs! You stole those eggs from him!

Back to our regularly scheduled programming. Here are pics of the chicks I just hatched. These are the mixes from my Buff Sussex roo over my Aloha girl, my Aloha/EE mix and the Speckled Sussex (hatchery).


Now look at this one! Beautiful! I'm praying it's a pullet!



I believe this is my lightest Speckled Sussex cross. I believe it's a cockerel.



Seriously, I did not expect all this white from these chicks. This is the first cross with my Buff Sussex roo, all him, no other roos on the ground. I finally got around to counting the mixes -- I have 15! The Buff Sussex appeared to carry spots as babies, they had very faint spotting. These have some real spotting but who knows if they will keep it.



That darker bird on the left toward the back looks to have EE influence, maybe even puffy cheeks from the kids puffy/heavily spotted Aloha/EE hen Maddie. Another of the darker chicks has that rusty red coming in on the wing like an EE cockerel.

Odds are very strong that the white spotting will almost totally disappear, because there are a lot of baby chicks that appear to have spotting that fades out. (Maybe it's some kind of Nature's camo, like spots on fawns?) Except, there are a few who seem to have more baby-white spotting? So that is kind of interesting. The annoying part is the WAITING. And then, also, I've had issues sexing the Sussex babies (vs the Alohas) because my Sussex boys have shorter tails, and smaller combs than the Swedish / Leghorn influence seen on the Alohas.

So I was all excited because it looked like I got a Cinnamon Sussex hen, white just like her momma, but now it's looking very roo-ish? And I'm trying to remember, did that guy say that if the rooster is Buff the hen-chicks will be Buff and the boys White? Off to the chicken color calculator! LOL.