The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[WalnutHill]

Thank you very much!
The person I've communicated with (who is selling the 3 16 week olds) states they are from GFF and...? (I'll check the text and see if I can find the other lineage she mentioned).
I know she doesn't have the parents (or "know" bcs she stated this) since she said she bought the 3 of these birds and hoped for a trio, 2 pullets and a cockerel. She stated that the person from whom she bought the birds would take them back and trade her 20 (what she said) silkies or other breeding stock.
The more I describe this, the stranger it sounds to me!
She was asking 125 but quickly offered the 3 of them for 100.
Ixs that anywhere in the range they'd usually go for?

On the other hand, I communicated with a different person who sells eggs. I emailed again bcs the price was left out. (I had asked about several different breeds' eggs).
As per high cull rate: what sorts of defects would I be looking for/at?
Thank you very much!

First, if she did not hatch them from eggs that she ordered from GFF (and has an invoice for) then they are not GFF birds. They are her birds. That in itself is something I'd keep in mind.
Second, if she is getting the eggs from someone else then you have NO idea what quality the parent stock is.
Third, hearsay on what "the breeder will do for me" is meaningless, and generally is meant to influence you. Very few breeders will "take back" birds due to the biosecurity concerns. Those that do, you can only hope they have proper quarantine facilities.

At this point you can't tell if they are pure Ayam Cemani or not, so if you are interested you will have to use your own judgement to assess quality, or post pics and ask for input. They are not fully mature, but should be mature enough to generally assess form.

Prime cull points:
Mouth not all gray or black. Any pink on the tongue or roof of the mouth is not good for breeding stock.
Mulberry/red in the face, comb or wattles. Black is the color of the bird.
Any white on the foot. At 16 weeks, any white on the foot is a disqualification.
Comb must be a single comb.
Skin not full black. Anus is a good place to check. It should be coal black, as should the skin under the wings.

Secondary cull points:
Droopy wings, overly full/fluffy butt and belly, short and stocky build, gold or silver highlights in the hackles or saddle feather (or body feathers), or any other general poultry flaws like crooked toes, crossbeak, etc.

The price is quite low for juveniles so I'd be concerned that quality is low.

 

[yeye5]

First, if she did not hatch them from eggs that she ordered from GFF (and has an invoice for) then they are not GFF birds. They are her birds. That in itself is something I'd keep in mind.
Second, if she is getting the eggs from someone else then you have NO idea what quality the parent stock is.
Third, hearsay on what "the breeder will do for me" is meaningless, and generally is meant to influence you. Very few breeders will "take back" birds due to the biosecurity concerns. Those that do, you can only hope they have proper quarantine facilities.

At this point you can't tell if they are pure Ayam Cemani or not, so if you are interested you will have to use your own judgement to assess quality, or post pics and ask for input. They are not fully mature, but should be mature enough to generally assess form.

Prime cull points:
Mouth not all gray or black. Any pink on the tongue or roof of the mouth is not good for breeding stock.
Mulberry/red in the face, comb or wattles. Black is the color of the bird.
Any white on the foot. At 16 weeks, any white on the foot is a disqualification.
Comb must be a single comb.
Skin not full black. Anus is a good place to check. It should be coal black, as should the skin under the wings.

Secondary cull points:
Droopy wings, overly full/fluffy butt and belly, short and stocky build, gold or silver highlights in the hackles or saddle feather (or body feathers), or any other general poultry flaws like crooked toes, crossbeak, etc.

The price is quite low for juveniles so I'd be concerned that quality is low.

I agree with the comments about trusting the word of someone that I Don't even Know!
I felt instinctively that this person had gotten in over her head and was likely in a very similar position as I'm in--the difference being she didn't research. I will take whatever time is needed to do my research.
She kept referring to her "bird guy"--the breeder she bought the 3 birds from but didn't say who that is. Is it acceptable to ask who? I mean "acceptable" within what's considered good manners within this field.

I saved pics from her ad. Those I will post here. The opinions I read next will go far in helping me know what's going on.

 

[myfavoritechicken]

Love the Ayam Cemani. Have been raising them for a little over 2 years now. On my way to acquiring a juvenile rooster from Greenfire Farms next week. The breed is fun, challenging, and so different from my other breeds. Just joined BYC recently. Some of our most recent chick pictures for Spring!

 

[WalnutHill]

I'm on my cell phone now. I'll take a look on the big screen later.

 

[WalnutHill]

I agree with the comments about trusting the word of someone that I Don't even Know!
I felt instinctively that this person had gotten in over her head and was likely in a very similar position as I'm in--the difference being she didn't research. I will take whatever time is needed to do my research.
She kept referring to her "bird guy"--the breeder she bought the 3 birds from but didn't say who that is. Is it acceptable to ask who? I mean "acceptable" within what's considered good manners within this field.

I saved pics from her ad. Those I will post here. The opinions I read next will go far in helping me know what's going on.

I wouldn't buy based solely on those photos. They are not posed in positions that show their form or proportions. They do look quite black but from the photos it's impossible to tell even if they are Svart Hona or Ayam Cemani.

 

[yeye5]

I wouldn't buy based solely on those photos. They are not posed in positions that show their form or proportions. They do look quite black but from the photos it's impossible to tell even if they are Svart Hona or Ayam Cemani.

Thanks.
The conclusion I've come to from this short flirtation with buying my firsts is that I do not know enough yet to buy at all. That's important info to have.
There is someone else who offered 10 AC eggs for 65 dollars. That too sounds like a great bu--a big plus is that the eggs could be picked up rather than shipped (shipped eggs make me very nervous). That simply puts me back to the same predicament...
It would be great to be able to meet and see many before buying. Unfortunately that doesn't seem like a possibility.
How in the world did all of you ppl on this thread begin??? How did you learn what you're looking for?
Did you (like I may) go thru rounds of buying sub-standard birds? Then what? Try to breed out the sub standard qualities? or just start over?

 

[mich9510]

Thanks.
The conclusion I've come to from this short flirtation with buying my firsts is that I do not know enough yet  to buy at all. That's important info to have.
There is someone else who offered 10 AC eggs for 65 dollars. That too sounds like a great bu--a big plus is that the eggs could be picked up rather than shipped (shipped eggs make me very nervous). That simply puts me back to the same predicament...
It would be great to be able to meet and see many before buying. Unfortunately that doesn't seem like a possibility.
How in the world did all of you ppl on this thread begin??? How did you learn what you're looking for?
Did you (like I may) go thru rounds of buying sub-standard birds? Then what? Try to breed out the sub standard qualities? or just start over?

Hi there. I'm just going to jump in here as a fellow AC enthusiast. I'm very new to chickens in general. I received my first hatchery jersey giants this past August. I thought a chicken was a chicken in terms of quality but thanks to this online community I have learned otherwise.
You're smart to do your research first.
I purchased some svart hona and ayam cemani eggs for pretty cheap (3$ an egg I think). I got them mixed up but it doesn't matter because they were poor quality birds. Almost all of them had white middle toenails, a few had silver leakage, and one of their skin under his wing was yellow. Inside of mouths pink, overall not good. So I culled them. I think I have a few pictures a few posts back. Heck one of the pullets had a very flipped over comb wich makes me think they were crossed with leghorn. Anyways, I have really been doing research like you and decided to invest in some quality birds.

How did I find quality? On this site. I read and read old posts. As a fellow BYC member said "you must dredge that info"
Stay away from eBay.
Reading through this thread you will figure out who knows what they are talking about and who has quality birds. I have a clutch of AC eggs in the bator now from someone I respect very much on this site and I can't wait to see what I get. Even so I have no delusions that my birds will be perfect. It takes several generations to get breeding quality ACs. Unless, of course, you but adult birds but I simply cannot afford that.
I have also decided to stick with AC only. I'm afraid if I do SH in addition I will get them mixed up and they will crossbreed. Even with leg bands.
The other thing I want to mention is that you will occasionally find people on BYC selling hatching eggs from various breeds, including SH and AC. While many are well intentioned and honest, some aren't. If I see some eggs I'm interested in I creep on their profile to see if they are an active poster and read what they have to say. I feel like that is a good way to judge if they are legit. I hope that helps.

 

[yeye5]

Hi there. I'm just going to jump in here as a fellow AC enthusiast. I'm very new to chickens in general. I received my first hatchery jersey giants this past August. I thought a chicken was a chicken in terms of quality but thanks to this online community I have learned otherwise.
You're smart to do your research first.
I purchased some svart hona and ayam cemani eggs for pretty cheap (3$ an egg I think). I got them mixed up but it doesn't matter because they were poor quality birds. Almost all of them had white middle toenails, a few had silver leakage, and one of their skin under his wing was yellow. Inside of mouths pink, overall not good. So I culled them. I think I have a few pictures a few posts back. Heck one of the pullets had a very flipped over comb wich makes me think they were crossed with leghorn. Anyways, I have really been doing research like you and decided to invest in some quality birds.

How did I find quality? On this site. I read and read old posts. As a fellow BYC member said "you must dredge that info"
Stay away from eBay.
Reading through this thread you will figure out who knows what they are talking about and who has quality birds. I have a clutch of AC eggs in the bator now from someone I respect very much on this site and I can't wait to see what I get. Even so I have no delusions that my birds will be perfect. It takes several generations to get breeding quality ACs. Unless, of course, you but adult birds but I simply cannot afford that.
I have also decided to stick with AC only. I'm afraid if I do SH in addition I will get them mixed up and they will crossbreed. Even with leg bands.
The other thing I want to mention is that you will occasionally find people on BYC selling hatching eggs from various breeds, including SH and AC. While many are well intentioned and honest, some aren't. If I see some eggs I'm interested in I creep on their profile to see if they are an active poster and read what they have to say. I feel like that is a good way to judge if they are legit. I hope that helps.

Than you very much! It certainly Does help.
I'm going back to page 1 and reading everything again.
I also noticed (I think) that there are 2 threads on ACs. Is there any reason to favor one oer the other? (I'll recheck and if I am incorrect I'll post back).

I saw some AC eggs on ebay. GREAT SAVE, thanks!

I also searched a site that is an ad site for "everything" but I believe it focuses heavily on animals. It's called Hoobly. Has anyone heard of that site? Is it a good resource or a "run screaming"?
I looked there bcs I have never had eggs shipped and the combination of shipping risks and pricey (though worth it)cargo just freaks me right on out. (Although truth be known, the way I see any animal I feel they are all precious cargo...)

It seems that my timeline has drastically changed. I'm ok with that. In fact if I had bought now--eggs, juvies, anything--I'd likely be spending the same amount of time and just less money and grief, before getting on the way to quality ACs.
I really appreciate the direction!

 

[birdman55]

I was under the impression that green fire farms doesn't allow any more farm visits due to bio security.? Hmmm interesting

 

[FridayYet]

With the AI outbreak in the South, I wouldn't let anyone visit either.