The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[bluenkimchi]

I thought Oyge came from Cemani stock that was brought over to Korea by Chinese merchants and bred with the native fowls there? But ya, if you get some lab results done on both, that would explain things better too................

 

[Double Kindness]

I would be very interested in that information DC. They do seem pretty hardy. They seem to have an odd little thing going on to protect the girls (the roos) but only the black pullets. They took right to the haffies, but my slw gets molested by my haffie roo Nugget all the time. She's 2 months older than them but had a slow recovery from an injury. The guys don't let Nugget near the cemani or haffie girls, so he's just always on top of Wobbles.

The crow reduction surgery has left them kinda raspy/breathy. It's common, but still unsettling. The bresse go for crow reduction surgery on Dec 2. Things have gone well so far with that procedure. I have my fingers crossed for continued success.

I'm trying to get up my nerve to go rangle a bunch of roosters and ducks to send to freezer camp. Thanksgiving is next week and I have put this off as long as I can. My bf is unable to help me atm he injured his hand. These ducks are big and strong, which makes me very nervous.

 

[DCchicken]

I thought Oyge came from Cemani stock that was brought over to Korea by Chinese merchants and bred with the native fowls there? But ya, if you get some lab results done on both, that would explain things better too................

See we can't verify which direction they went. Some papers seem to say the Ogye were brought to Indonesian by the Dutch. Other papers indicate there was a common, yet extinct common FM ancestor that was freely traded in the region and later was adapted by local customs and tastes. But there is definitely a link between Ayam Cemani, Ogye, and Svart Hona. I plan on proving that in a research paper when I get around to getting the DNA processed.

 

[Chickengirl1304]

I culled all of my 1st hatch of 5 chicks...With the advice of Randy...
as he observed they were not quite up to par, via Facetime on both our Iphones.

BUMMER!

It was very quick.

I hated it, but at least this shows I have the resolved to do what is right with this breed.

I am now hatching 10 eggs every 7 days...
so it is all about numbers now...

It was your first hatch? And all 5 weren't up to par? Are your breeders up to par? Is there a good chance to get better chicks than you had in your first hatch?

 

[DCchicken]

I actually can't cull at hatch. Something about those cute little eyes says "give me a chance." So usually when I say cull it means remove from the breeding stock. The pullets get to live out their lives as layers. The boys get grown to about 4-5 months and then processed (by a nice lady at another farm). I then keep a few of the processed roos and donate the rest to local charities or families in need. At any given time I will have 150+ adult birds plus another 30 or so young chicks growing out.

I do find growing them all out for 4-5 months before making selections allows me to determine how defects affect the breeding program. But that is what works for me.

 

[maranfarmer563]

I had a batch of cemani hatch from eggs I bought. The cull chicks went with some maran chicks to a lady raising for eggs. Of course I didn't make any money on that deal.

 

[Randy2010]

I do cull at hatch, when I see the obvious flaws, like white on them, white toes and so on. I have no need to keep these chicks and have to raise and spend time and money on feeding them just cull them later down the road when I can already see the flaws that they have. Because most likely they will not leave my place anyway, and if they do, on to be given to a very few friends that will process for meat. I know already what the line throws and what the results are after growing some of them out. So for me to get where I want with the breed, it is just better for me to do mine first cull at hatch and go from there. I am already getting better results and hope with every generation the one line will get better and better by me doing this. I probably cull 85 percent of the one line at hatch this year, and the other 10 to 12 percent by the time they were 4 or so months old. This may not work for most people, but for me, I know it is the fastest way for me to get the best breeders for this line and to improve on the line a lot faster.

 

[maranfarmer563]

I have a pet store and sell mice and rats. During the spring I sell extra or deformed chicks as feeders. Extra cockerels also are sold to people with large snakes .

 

[DCchicken]

I personally will not kill at hatch as I find it unnecessary and I believe that each chick should have a chance to live. But to each his own method. I grow them out so that I can observe and improve the line. You learn a lot by growing out large amounts of chicks.

Culling does not have to be killing. It just means being selective on breeding. Both methods take the same amount of time to reach the same goals. You have to be selective once they mature. But you don't necessarily have to kill the mature birds. Just don't use them for breeding. But just as with any breed, they still may have some value as egg layers or food for families.

And I am not worried about creating competition. In fact, I just sold a trio to one of the best breeders in the country. He has a history of improving breeds. He also has even more knowledge about chicken genetics than I do. So I expect that he will take the birds I sold him and continue to improve them. And I sold him laying hens and a mature rooster. It doesn't matter that he will start selling them right away. It's a business for him and he has a family to feed.

You can't worry about creating competitors. That will happen naturally. There are already large amounts of breeders with Ayam Cemani. The more breeders, the larger the base of Ayam Cemani becomes.

Personally I breed as a hobby. I never expect to make money. That perspective allows me to concentrate on improving each of my breeds. As a result, my latest generation of Ayam Cemani (a quad as luck would have it), are very close to perfect.

But I understand that some people may feel the need to cull at hatch. That is a legitimate choice. Each Cemani breeder will have to select whether they cull at hatch or raise to maturity and select at that age. It's a personal choice. But for me, I can't kill any animal. Zombies...yes. Baby chicks...no.

 

[DCchicken]

I have a pet store and sell mice and rats. During the spring I sell extra or deformed chicks as feeders. Extra cockerels also are sold to people with large snakes .

This is an interesting and practical use. It's definitely out of the box thinking.