The "Ask Anything" to Nicalandia Thread

[MysteryChicken]

Ok. Both, I assume. Does ER dominate over e+ and e^b even in heterozygous form, in chick down and/or adult feathering?

Yes, E^R/e+, & E^R/e^b will look like Birchens, but probably with abit of leakage, in some parts.
Chicks would probably be Black, or Dark Brown(I think).

 

[SourRoses]

Is the Blonde wash on Colonel Custard here because of Gold?
I must confess I haven't yet understood Silver vs Gold, as I keep thinking in terms of Red vs Black. Is it the same thing?

He has a straight black barred brother, and this is one of his many "Red" brothers, with a black chest...
(some of the reds have pale chests with slightly lighter saddles, but less distinct barring).

So, I chose Custard to breed for the thin grade of his feathers, but also because I thought his color is "in-between" to allow for chicks of either color. Is that assumption correct?

Oh, and he has no idea what his silly name is. It's just for me, to make it easier to think of one bird, but he didn't get named until I chose him.

 

[NatJ]

I must confess I haven't yet understood Silver vs Gold, as I keep thinking in terms of Red vs Black. Is it the same thing?

No, gold vs. silver is not the same thing as red vs. black.

Chickens mostly have two pigment colors, black and red.
Those two colors can be arranged on the body by various genes, making various patterns, or making a chicken that is solid black or solid gold.

Black can be modified to other shades (blue, splash, lavender, chocolate, khaki, and the gene called Dominant White turns black into white.)

Gold can be modified to other shades (cream, mahogany, and the gene called Silver turns gold into white.)

The silver/gold gene is located on the Z sex chromosome.

A hen has chromosomes ZW. Because she has only one Z chromosome, she is silver or she is gold, but she never has both genes. She inherits her W chromosome from her mother, and passes it on to her daughters. She inherits her Z chromsome from her father, and she passes it on to her sons. So a hen can only inherit silver or gold from her father, and can only give it to her sons. Silver or gold never passes from a hen to her daughter.

A rooster has ZZ sex chromosomes. So he can be pure for silver, pure for gold, or have one of each. Silver is dominant, so it is the one that shows when he has both. But when he has both genes, the silver color is more likely to be yellowish (like the color on your rooster), and when he is pure for silver the color is more likely to be a nice clean white. A rooster inherits silver or gold from both parents, and passes one or the other of his Z chromomes (with the silver or gold gene) to every chick he sires.

Is the Blonde wash on Colonel Custard here because of Gold?

It might be, but I'm not entirely sure. There are several things that can cause feathers to yellow like that.

When you talk about his "brothers," do they all have exactly the same parents? If yes, then it is quite likely that he does have both silver and gold.

If his mother or his father was gold, then he would have to have the gold gene. But if his mother was silver, and his father was silver while carrying gold, then Custard could be carrying gold or could be pure for silver, and you wouldn't know for sure until you see what color chicks he produces. If he sires any gold chicks (sons or daughters), you would know for sure that he has the gold gene.

He has a straight black barred brother, and this is one of his many "Red" brothers, with a black chest...
(some of the reds have pale chests with slightly lighter saddles, but less distinct barring).

The differences between the black brothers and the red ones are caused by some of the genes that control where the red vs. black go on the chicken. The black ones also have silver or gold or both, but you can't see which because of them having black all over (no place to show the gold or silver).

The white barring is caused by yet another gene, that puts white bars on the chicken no matter what other color genes it has. Of course, white bars can make it harder to see whether a chicken actually has some silver, because barring and silver both put white on the feathers.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Can we talk about crests for a moment?

I keep hearing that if you breed "single crested" birds to each other you will eventually get a bunch of uncrested birds in your line. Is that right? Edit: I think people are using "single crested" to denote a small crest without a vault, but my understanding is that it is entirely possible for small crested birds without vaults to breed true, so it must be possible to have this phenotype presentation and the birds still breed true, right?

I would also love a resource that explained more about the differences, from a phenotype perspective and otherwise, between Cr1, Cr2 and Cr3.

 

[MysteryChicken]

@nicalandia

Curious: How many mutations are there for tail plumage? Like for fullness, length, shape, & color?

 

[NatJ]

Can we talk about crests for a moment?

I keep hearing that if you breed "single crested" birds to each other you will eventually get a bunch of uncrested birds in your line. Is that right?

If "single crested" means the bird only has one copy of the crest gene, then yes it is true that breeding two single crested birds can produce some chicks with no crests.

I thought Cr was incomplete dominant, and single crested birds would breed true, more or less.

Are you familiar with black/blue/splash genetics? Blue is an incomplete dominant (one copy of the blue gene makes blue, two copies of the blue gene makes splash.) Any other incompletely dominant gene would work the same way. Pages explaining blue are quite common. Just pretend that "black" birds have no crest, "blue" birds have one copy of the crest gene, and "splash" birds have two copies of the crest gene, and it will all work out perfectly. Just like blues do not breed true, neither do chickens who have one copy of the crest gene and one copy of the not-crest gene.

For crests, any chicken with two copies of the crest gene will have to pass that gene to every chick they produce. Two parents, each having two copies of the crest gene, must produce 100% crested chicks. (This is true of many crested chickens.)

Any chicken with no crest gene will pass no-crest to their chicks. If you breed two such chickens, you get 100% chicks with no crest. (This is true of all the not-crested breeds.)

But if a chicken inherits crest from one parent, and no-crest from the other parent, they will show a crest but still have the gene for no-crest. Each of their chicks could inherit the gene for crest, or the gene for no-crest. If you breed two such chickens, some chicks will get crest from the mother and the father, some chicks will get crest from one parent and no-crest from the other parent, and some chicks will get no-crest from each parent. So you get some crested chicks (pure for the crested gene), some crested chicks (one copy of the crested gene), and some chicks with no crest (no crested gene).

Edit to address clarification of the post:

I think people are using "single crested" to denote a small crest without a vault, but my understanding is that it is entirely possible for small crested birds without vaults to breed true, so it must be possible to have this phenotype presentation and the birds still breed true, right?

Yes, a small crest with no vault can breed true, as long as the chickens have two copies of the gene for crest. Crested Cream Legbars would be a good example of this (small crest, breeds true, no vault.)

I would also love a resource that explained more about the differences, from a phenotype perspective and otherwise, between Cr1, Cr2 and Cr3.

Unfortunately I don't know about those. Hopefully @nicalandia can answer that.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

If "single crested" means the bird only has one copy of the crest gene, then yes it is true that breeding two single crested birds can produce some chicks with no crests.



Are you familiar with black/blue/splash genetics? Blue is an incomplete dominant (one copy of the blue gene makes blue, two copies of the blue gene makes splash.) Any other incompletely dominant gene would work the same way. Pages explaining blue are quite common. Just pretend that "black" birds have no crest, "blue" birds have one copy of the crest gene, and "splash" birds have two copies of the crest gene, and it will all work out perfectly. Just like blues do not breed true, neither do chickens who have one copy of the crest gene and one copy of the not-crest gene.

For crests, any chicken with two copies of the crest gene will have to pass that gene to every chick they produce. Two parents, each having two copies of the crest gene, must produce 100% crested chicks. (This is true of many crested chickens.)

Any chicken with no crest gene will pass no-crest to their chicks. If you breed two such chickens, you get 100% chicks with no crest. (This is true of all the not-crested breeds.)

But if a chicken inherits crest from one parent, and no-crest from the other parent, they will show a crest but still have the gene for no-crest. Each of their chicks could inherit the gene for crest, or the gene for no-crest. If you breed two such chickens, some chicks will get crest from the mother and the father, some chicks will get crest from one parent and no-crest from the other parent, and some chicks will get no-crest from each parent. So you get some crested chicks (pure for the crested gene), some crested chicks (one copy of the crested gene), and some chicks with no crest (no crested gene).



Unfortunately I don't know about those. Hopefully @nicalandia can answer that.

I was editing and clarifying my post as you responded, apparently! I'm sorry! Thought I'd be in the clear since there were no replies yet.

 

[NatJ]

I was editing and clarifying my post as you responded, apparently! I'm sorry! Thought I'd be in the clear since there were no replies yet.

I just edited mine to address that
I'm leaving what I typed earlier, because it may help someone else even though it does not directly address your re-stated question.

"Single" is a confusing term because it gets used several ways.

"Single laced" and "Double Laced" mean one line of edging on the feather or two lines of edging on the feather (talks about the appearance, not the genetics.)

But "single" and "double" in blue egg discussions usually refer to whether the chicken will breed true for blue eggs (single copy or double copy of the gene.)

I made an assumption about "single crested," but context makes a big difference when understanding what someone actually means. And of course you can get people using it both ways in the same discussion, which really gets confusing!

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

I just edited mine to address that
I'm leaving what I typed earlier, because it may help someone else even though it does not directly address your re-stated question.

"Single" is a confusing term because it gets used several ways.

"Single laced" and "Double Laced" mean one line of edging on the feather or two lines of edging on the feather (talks about the appearance, not the genetics.)

But "single" and "double" in blue egg discussions usually refer to whether the chicken will breed true for blue eggs (single copy or double copy of the gene.)

I made an assumption about "single crested," but context makes a big difference when understanding what someone actually means. And of course you can get people using it both ways in the same discussion, which really gets confusing!

Thank you! And thank you for the confirmation, Legbars are exactly the breed I had in mind in this scenario (though I understand that apparently UK silkies are homozygous single/small crested as well and entirely unlike the puff balls we see here.)

I'm worried that Legbar breeders are getting carried away breeding for big dramatic crests but everytime I express support for smaller crests people say it will eventually produce non-crested birds. This hasn't been my experience in 4 generations, but I wanted to confirm this before going on about it anymore, lol.

 

[NatJ]

I'm worried that Legbar breeders are getting carried away breeding for big dramatic crests but everytime I express support for smaller crests people say it will eventually produce non-crested birds. This hasn't been my experience in 4 generations, but I wanted to confirm this before going on about it anymore, lol.

If they are all pure for the crest gene, selecting for smaller crests will not produce birds without the crest gene.

It may be possible to breed them with such a small crest that they do not LOOK crested. Selecting for the smallest possible crests has a chance of doing that. The obvious solution is to breed for correct-size crests, not too large or too small.