The "Ask Anything" to Nicalandia Thread

[nicalandia]

Can we talk about crests for a moment?

I keep hearing that if you breed "single crested" birds to each other you will eventually get a bunch of uncrested birds in your line. Is that right? Edit: I think people are using "single crested" to denote a small crest without a vault, but my understanding is that it is entirely possible for small crested birds without vaults to breed true, so it must be possible to have this phenotype presentation and the birds still breed true, right?

I would also love a resource that explained more about the differences, from a phenotype perspective and otherwise, between Cr1, Cr2 and Cr3.

There are three known crest allelic mutations on the crest allele. cr+ is the wildtype non-crested. Cr1 produces a small crest without vaulted skulls. Cr2 and Cr3 display Vault and cerebral hernia.

Oder of dominance is CR1> CR2>CR3>cr+

Cr1/cr+ = Smalles of crests
Cr1/Cr1 = Small Crest
Cr1/Cr2 = Medium sized crest
Cr2/Cr2 = Large Crest with Vault
Cr3/Cr3 = Largest of crest with portions of the cranium missing.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Curious: How many mutations are there for tail plumage? Like for fullness, length, shape, & color?

 

[nicalandia]

Curious: How many mutations are there for tail plumage? Like for fullness, length, shape, & color?

For Fullness and Shape, very few studies have been done(can't find any at this time). For length there are a few.

What I surprised is that no study have been done on the Short tails of many breeds like Cochin

 

[JacinLarkwell]

There are three known crest allelic mutations on the crest allele. cr+ is the wildtype non-crested. Cr1 produces a small crest without vaulted skulls. Cr2 and Cr3 display Vault and cerebral hernia.

Oder of dominance is CR1> CR2>CR3>cr+

Cr1/cr+ = Smalles of crests
Cr1/Cr1 = Small Crest
Cr1/Cr2 = Medium sized crest
Cr2/Cr2 = Large Crest with Vault
Cr3/Cr3 = Largest of crest with portions of the cranium missing.

Do you know if chick skulls are the same? Or do the gaps form as the skull grows?

 

[nicalandia]

Do you know if chick skulls are the same? Or do the gaps form as the skull grows?

The chicks grow without the top of the skull, just a skin covering the brain

 

[MysteryChicken]

For Fullness and Shape, very few studies have been done(can't find any at this time). For length there are a few.

What I surprised is that no study have been done on the Short tails of many breeds like Cochin

Interesting, was hoping to learn something new about tail plumage today.

Surprising there aren't many studies regarding the tails.

 

[Perris]

There are three known crest allelic mutations on the crest allele. cr+ is the wildtype non-crested. Cr1 produces a small crest without vaulted skulls. Cr2 and Cr3 display Vault and cerebral hernia.

Oder of dominance is CR1> CR2>CR3>cr+

Cr1/cr+ = Smalles of crests
Cr1/Cr1 = Small Crest
Cr1/Cr2 = Medium sized crest
Cr2/Cr2 = Large Crest with Vault
Cr3/Cr3 = Largest of crest with portions of the cranium missing.

can you label those skulls please with the variety/breed of bird they came from?

 

[Perris]

If "single crested" means the bird only has one copy of the crest gene, then yes it is true that breeding two single crested birds can produce some chicks with no crests.

But if a chicken inherits crest from one parent, and no-crest from the other parent, they will show a crest but still have the gene for no-crest. Each of their chicks could inherit the gene for crest, or the gene for no-crest.

Thank you for these clarifications. I have been struggling to understand how one of last year's youngsters has no crest when I know who is her dam, and she has a small crest, and I understood it's dominant over no crest. But I didn't before connect that a small crest means the dam may pass on no-crest, instead of crest. So this youngster got no-crest from her dam as well as her sire (who was not crested). Or have I misunderstood?

 

[nicalandia]

can you label those skulls please with the variety/breed of bird they came from?

https://bitchinchickens.com/2021/04/05/vaulted-skulls-in-chickens/

Also crested Ducks..

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378111919309412

 

[NatJ]

Thank you for these clarifications. I have been struggling to understand how one of last year's youngsters has no crest when I know who is her dam, and she has a small crest, and I understood it's dominant over no crest. But I didn't before connect that a small crest means the dam may pass on no-crest, instead of crest. So this youngster got no-crest from her dam as well as her sire (who was not crested). Or have I misunderstood?

That sounds correct to me.