The Bessemer Project

[m.kitchengirl]

Thank you so much for this explanation.
It makes a lot more sense to me now, and I appreciate your taking the time to explain.
I find this very interesting & am glad you have decided to share with us & answer questions.
I look forward to following your progress. It sounds like a very worthwhile endeavor when laid out so succinctly.
So, will you start with primarily Buff type stock & breed in other varieties to get closer to the Mallard in build?

 

[Lovely Emily]

Thank you so much for this explanation.
It makes a lot more sense to me now, and I appreciate your taking the time to explain.
I find this very interesting & am glad you have decided to share with us & answer questions.
I look forward to following your progress. It sounds like a very worthwhile endeavor when laid out so succinctly.
So, will you start with primarily Buff type stock & breed in other varieties to get closer to the Mallard in build?

If I need to. I may only have to backcross onto the hen in the picture. I don't think the picture allows you to see how small she actually is. She's the size of a Campbell. The build of the drake is nice and horizontal. My backup plan is to outcross to Campbells in a sexlink.

I should also mention that I am working with a new variety this summer: The Snowy Bessemer project.

 

[gofasterstripe]

 

[AliciaM]

How can you start a snowy bessemer project if you havent even gotten the bessemer project off the ground? And you expect it to take just one summer?

 

[Lovely Emily]

What I am referring to when I say to start with breeders that meet the Standard of Perfection is this-when trying to develop a breed, you would, I assume, be crossing 2 other breeds with a specific goal in mind based on the characteristics/genetics of the 2 parents-if not, how did you decide on what 2 breeds to cross to begin with?
The parents of the "project" birds should meet the Standard so that when the new bird is replicated, you don't have a soup-salad of a mess.
It doesn't sound as if you're sure of the genetics of the hen being used in this breeding project so I don't understand how you can possibly replicate her genetics. You are ASSUMING she has recent Runner blood, but aren't sure. How then, will you choose other females to use in your project? Does that make sense?
I am not trying to be a buzzkill and I strongly believe that kids involved with animals is an amazing thing. The fact that you have a deep interest in the ducks is wonderful, but you have to set realistic and attainable goals.
In order to create a breed, you MUST have a VERY deep field of breeders to choose from.
Ducks are, in my opinion, VERY difficult to breed to Standard and I just don't want to see people creating more breeds that are actually just "Heinz 57" ducks.
Find a breed you truly love and work on perfecting THAT breed. Perfect your own line of an existing breed...now THAT'S impressive.
I actually understand the term "culling", but it eats me up to think that many ducklings are killed because they don't meet the criteria...bugs me to no end!
I don't want to discourage a young person from being involved with ducks-ducks are a great hobby and you could be doing so many destructive things that it's good to see you have chosen to walk a positive path.
Please just consider all of the variables that go into such an undertaking.
Again...I suppose I'm a killjoy, but trying to be a realistic killjoy!

Yes there are alot of variables. But like m.kitchengirl mentioned, I think this is a worthy undertaking, and it's uncharted territory in poultry. Nobody has ever had bibbed Buffs (actually, there may be WBB runners).
Right now, I don't have a very deep field of breeders to choose from. Some of those breeders I will make in this cross. Not all of them. Remember, ducks are fecund for longer than chickens are, so this pair may give me hundreds of offspring to choose from to select the best. The breed is basically being made by breeding Orpingtons away from standard, so there are lots of Orpis around, too. The Bib is dominant, so I'm not terribly worried about inbreeding. This is something that requires alot of planning, and backup planning, but, most of the questions can't be answered until this project is well underway. I can't tell you how many ducks I had to cull until I'm eating them. I can't tell you how I bred the type I want until I'm looking at a duck with that type. Just like I can't tell you how many generations its going to take for the bib to fill out. By the way, don't worry about me killing duckligs. That would be idiotic of me as a breeder to cull ducklings. I don't know anything about them! It would be almost impossible to see the bibs, and completely impossible to know how well the bird performs. If it's not deformed or sick or injured, it stays.
And lastly I should tell you that I don't mind you telling me these things or asking questions about my project. Some of the questions have made me think deeply about certain aspects of the project, and it has helped me.

Now, forgive my ignorance, but what's a 'Heins 57' duck? Don't tell me there's a breed with that name!

 

[Lovely Emily]

How can you start a snowy bessemer project if you havent even gotten the bessemer project off the ground? And you expect it to take just one summer?

No, I'm doing the projects paralel to each other. It may make things easier. I can oversee that the projects are moving in the same direction, and directed at the same type. I am starting the Snowy project with stock, again, with small Campbell/Runner type, and Rouen type, so it will only be a year behind the Bibbed Bessemer project. The only thing is, the genetics are ascertainably stable with the Snowies. So, actually, the Snowy project will be ahead of the bibbed project! (I think I just confused everyone...)

 

[Lovely Emily]

Here is a picture of one of the Snowy Protobessemers. This drake is the grand-drake of the ducks I'll be using (genotype M+/M+; li^h/li^h)

 

[easttxchick]

You're going to use a Silver Appleyard drake to create Snowy genetics? That will probably turn into a genetic train wreck...

 

[Lovely Emily]

That's not an Appleyard.... unless appleyards have solid heads, non-patched wings, smoky tails, fawn-toned hens with hoods and are scrawny meat birds, that is not an Appleyard, I can assure you. They breed true though.

 

[StevenW.]

Looks like a Silver Appleyard or a Welsh Harlequin.

I gotta ask this though, what are you going to do when you do your breeding stuff and experimenting with different breeds of ducks and then one day you start selling stock and the person that bought stock from you forgets what the breed of bird they are and just goes on the internet and looks around and finds pictures of birds similiar to the ones that person has. Then he starts advertising them as a breed they are not and then breeds them with TRUE breeds and then they breed and etc. you could possibly be polluting a breed of ducks which we have very very few bloodlines for already.