The Buckeye Thread

[Blueface]

@Blueface
I've got a couple of breeding questions. You have been breeding Buckeyes for a number of years now, and if I remember correctly, you started off with a pair.  I would assume that your type is set and you have mostly very good to excellent chicks, all of the ones that hatch are similar now.  Is that true? 
How many chicks did you have to hatch/ choose from, to get this champion rooster ? Do you pick the best from each hatch, or pick just one at the end of the year? Some years, do you not pick any at all? I'm just trying to get an idea of how many chicks to select from. I've read that only one in a hundred is a champion....... do you find that to be true?

I've been breeding buckeyes for a few years. A lot was said about the difficulty of breeding them to the standard not to mention advancing them to Champion Row. It was nearly impossible was what I was told. When I started breeding buckeyes the majority of the people representing the breed where hacks, they were clueless with nearly every aspect related to the breed. This stupid phrase..."you have to build the barn and then paint it" was often used. These people set the breed back more and more everytime they attempted to reproduce what they considered a Buckeye and hurt the breed further by passing along their jarble to unsuspecting people. To date, these misguided Loons are now no where in the picture and their attempts of repeatably producing a show quality Buckeye have failed. They failed on every level and now finally the Buckeye might be able to recover and people can see what a real Buckeye actually looks like. Its nice to finally have the opportunity to move forward! I stayed true to my beliefs and bred a complete bird starting from the tip of the beak through the back of the tail...breeding color, type and composition all at once. This method has been very successful. The most important aspect to breeding ANY breed is to have a goal...a very well formulated plan, a clear picture of what you think the breed should be and breed toward that idea. Don't keep continually changing your mind. Be true to yourself!

My type is very good despite many of my early critics, the color is very nice and my undercolor is exceptional! My birds do come very uniform for the most part and type is consistant. There are minor variations and that is to be expected with any breed that has not undergone refinement like many of the more common American class breeds and are not your solid boring colors like black or white.

The variations surrounding the Buckeye as a whole are great...no two flocks look exactly alike. The ALBC produced a whole lot of very poor quality birds and spread them around and that really hurt the breed.

This has brought us to where we are today and the confusion amongst many of the breeders/potential breeders.

As for this bird pictured, I hatched roughly 150 birds that year...he is one of 3 birds from that hatching year that have been on Champion Row. I had a cockerel win at two shows in 2014, advancing to Reserve Super Grand of Show (best chicken at the show) and Reserve Grand Champion LF in another. The sister to cock pictured advanced to Reserve American in 2014. Its fair to mention that all of the classes I've competed in did have enough birds to be considered eligible for APA recognition. That is a detail that is often left out when many people start sharing successes. How big of an accomplishment is it when you are the Champion American and only have 8-10 birds in the class? The devil is always in the details .

Ultimately I select what I consider to be the best from the hatch but I watch all of them very closely as they grow. I keep everything that I feel will help my future generations. In 2014, I kept back 15 cockerels and 20 pullets out of 150 birds roughly. From those, I've kept 6 cocks and 15 hens to breed from if I choose to.

I'll always keep some back...each year, my flock is improving...last year I hatched around 50 and kept 15 of them. This year, I've hatch roughly 200-250 and plan on keeping 50 of them approximately. These birds are something special! They far exceed my past years in quality; its very exciting. I'm really looking forward to this fall and next spring.

Breeding 1000 to just get one? That whole flock needs to be culled! Hey wait...that was the ALBC flock...what does that say about the quality of the fowl, not to mention the quality and/or the knowledge of the breeders? They aren't much! That comment is obsurd! But that is the mentality of those loons! That says so much about the quality of their fowl and further confirms what I've been stating the past 6-7 years. If you breed the Buckeye properly, it is very easy to do VERY well! I'm proof of that. I think I've put 8-9 different birds on Champion Row and I bet I've only hatched 500 buckeyes to do it. But the quality has been very high overall. I've been able to place a Buckeye from every generation I've bred on Champion Row.

Not bad considering that I was told that I would never be able to do it let alone be able to compete.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

@Blueface , thanks for sharing- it's hard to know just how much work goes into breeding a champion bird. It's every educational to know what lies underneath in a breeding program. It's one thing to say "I'm breeding to SOP" and clearly quite a different thing to actually do it.
I'm a bit unsure of one thing- the bit about the painting the barn thing. I've heard that and thought it was good advice, my interpretation of that being there's no point in keeping a perfectly coloured bird if the conformation was off. So, in your breeding strategy, you were/are selecting birds that are as close to perfection, both colour and conformation, and culling the rest from your breeding program? Meaning, that, if you had a bird with perfect conformation but (say) too much black, you would not use that as a breeder?

 

[Blueface]

@Blueface
, thanks for sharing- it's hard to know just how much work goes into breeding a champion bird. It's every educational to know what lies underneath in a breeding program. It's one thing to say "I'm breeding to SOP" and clearly quite a different thing to actually do it.
I'm a bit unsure of one thing-  the bit about the painting the barn thing. I've heard that and thought it was good advice, my interpretation of that being there's no point in keeping a perfectly coloured bird if the conformation was off. So, in your breeding strategy,   you were/are selecting birds that are as close to perfection, both colour and conformation, and culling the rest from your breeding program?  Meaning,  that,   if you had a bird with perfect conformation but (say) too much black, you would not use that as a breeder?  

IMO, there is no point breeding a bird if the color is off either. Its all what you think is acceptable. But heed my advice when I say if you don't have the color to begin with. Its not going to magically appear no matter how many years you breed.
I select birds that are at least close, perfection is a pipe dream. It all goes back to how the breeder views the breed. Never focus on just one or two aspects...you have to breed a complete bird! What is too much black? Your opinion may differ from mine!?!? Some prefer no black at all....its their choice but if that path is taken; a detailed record needs to be taken and birds evaluated to ensure the breed is indeed maintained properly; visa versa for the other path.
But if advice is to be weighted, common sense tells you to follow those that have been successful and are willing to share because the internet is full of "experts" or what I consider "internet jockeys" full of information they know nothing about......but hey....they sound good!?!? Some talk the talk while others choose to walk the talk.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

Good points @Blueface and good advice for any breed or goal. I'm looking forward to seeing how my chicks grow out- this will be an interesting venture.

 

[Blueface]

Good points @Blueface
  and good advice for any breed or goal. I'm looking forward to seeing how my chicks grow out- this will be an interesting venture.

I'm not an expert; never claimed to be but I do care. I hate when people get on the internet and start rattling off their infinite knowledge or expertise related to the Buckeye (even poultry in general) especially when there is absolutely no record of doing anything for the breed outside of following misinformed advice. Nettie Metcalf should be the ultimate source of reference, not the breeders/propogators for the ALBC (drones) and their limited knowledge. They claimed to be the gold standard of breeding the buckeye with absolutely NO record of doing anything ....I mean anything to promoting Nettie's true vision of the breed!

Case in point, when someone advertises to the world that their flock has severe Marek's issues and plans on participating in one of the largest shows in the country anyway despite the chance of spreading it; its a clear indication of idiocy, ignorance, selfishness, and completely reckless along with a complete lack of respect to every Poultry enthusiast in attendance. And for what? To sell a few birds and pass along this diseasr to someone else?

You must show caution who's advice you choose to follow.

I hope everything works out for you

 

[Blueface]

Another group to watch out for is that Sustainable Poultry Network and that whole flock certification nonsense. Its a good way to get taken for a lot of money and get a worthless piece of paper in return. Standard bred Poultry is the ultimate goal.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

I've never heard of the sustainable poultry network, but thanks for the heads up.
I think Nettie would be very pleased that her Buckeyes are still around and are doing well. It would have been a shame to lose the breed, they certainly are unique.

 

[Blueface]

I've never heard of the sustainable poultry network, but thanks for the heads up.
I think Nettie would be very pleased that her Buckeyes are still around and are doing well. It would have been a shame to lose the breed, they certainly are unique.

I ultimately agree, but I often wonder what she'd think about their color and their lack of good representation in the show pens. They were first and foremost a utility fowl but appearance and representation mattered to her. She had the mentality of a bulldog and never backed down when people challenged her. She was a very strong minded, independent individual from what I've read.

 

[stryker]

Check out this happy mom! First chick out of 11 eggs.

 

[sumi]

Beautiful @stryker ! How many has she hatched in total? I.e. update and more pics please?