The Buckeye Thread

[Blueface]

I noticed a strong downward trend in the overall quality of urch's buckeyes in the past couple of years based on birds ordered from him. One of my local 4H families ordered several chicks from him last year. They grew up with no under color, small and snake headed. Whatever he added to them needs to be pulled and culled. Every experienced breeder I know has always maintained a closed flock. If bred properly; it is very possible to maintain it for a lifetime.

 

[PA Farmer24]

Well, I do know that Duane Urch purchased several Buckeye pullets from me several years ago, so there's that. At the time he told me he was having trouble with (wait for it) fertility, and wanted to bring in some new blood to perk things up a bit.

I believe he also got a cock bird from Chris McCary at one point too, not sure when. Probably around the same time.

And I certainly think Mr. Urch would qualify as a breeder with an established line of Buckeyes.

As well, I have in the past sold Dutch Bantams to LeJean Marshall, another very longtime (more than 50 years) breeder of poultry. As with Buckeyes, most pure Dutch are very close in terms of their genetic connectedness, so it was certainly possible to make such "outcrosses" and see very good results. In fact, LeJean said one of the cock birds I sold him was the best he had used in years, and did great things in his pens. So there are two specific examples for you, right off the top of my head, involving my own birds going back to breeders with established lines.

Bear in mind, neither Mr. Marshall nor Mr. Urch frequent such online forums, so perhaps you are seeing results only from those who do, and your sampling is modified by that fact.

Just a thought.

Didn't Urch open is flock up a few years back because he was having problems with chicks coming out of their shells and even traded with someothers as well to bring in new blood but also possibly get some of his line out there which could be a real problem if he was really having problems?

 

[Metella]

Marengoite - you are making my head spin with useless info ....

I have training as a micro biologist - and just want to make that clear - so you don't think I am not familiar with some of this - but I don't care and I would rather get into some anecdotes on real life and experiences here ....

I think only you two are posting right now with deep interested in creating/having your own lines ..... and you seem to be pushing the line by pointing out faults instead of adding to and offering alternatives ..... if any reader is really wanting to get into hard core breeding - I am sure they will bring it up and then they be delighted for further information - but still - pointing out you are listing facts and another anecdotes is a conclusion for other readers to make, please ton it down before this thread is closed too. Why has the art of disagreement and differing opinions been lost ? I did find your point about species and lines interesting in a very esoteric way - but please - post pictures of your birds, tell me tales about specific birds and maybe share your goals in breeding Buckeyes ??? Please ?

I want to get to the important things for me - like - in that pic Pathfinder - your netting is NOT sagging. I"m ticked. I have it and it sags no matter that I pull it as far and tight as the stakes will allow - so I bought some step in posts and they don't "hook" on the netting in the perfect spots - so I still get some sag and it is NOT taking the electric - My husband says it is because of the grass -but I don't have a weekwacker & was hoping the chickies would do that - so ..... any tips about poultry netting ?

 

[007medic]

Matella, do you have a lot of open pasture or are you surrounded by the deep greeny woods of Vermont? I ask because you may want to consider ranging your birds. A coop well surrounded by open land is not the easiest target for predation and your girls will put them selves up at dusk if they're well-homed to the coop. Mine have 1/2-1 acre of clear green space between the coop and the woods. Been ranging them 4 years on this set up and only lost one or two who really went off reservation out into the deep wood. I dunno what your set up is like, but if you have pasture and you don't have hawks, foxes, coyotes and coons coming out of your ears, you might try ranging. Which, of course would make the whole netting question moot

.

 

[Tailfeathers]

Just got caught up with the new thread. Admittedly, due to it's awful late and I'm on the way to bed, I only scanned the last couple pages.

Two quick thoughts. First, you can probably exclude 'Pearce" from the recognized lines. At least for a little while. Dennis passed away a few years ago and while it's a long story that I won't go into, his son bought a Trio from me this past St. Patty's Day to rebuild their flock. I also found out from Dennis' son and it was confirmed by Don Schrider that Dennis crossed his birds with another's and Don crossed the one's he got from Dennis. And, while it's a mute point now, Dennis had his own "strain" which was used in the study done by the ALBC.

Secondly, I would agree with the sentiments that Marengoite is trying to make. Again, I quickly scanned the posts over but the one thing I didn't see is that when folks bring in the "new blood" for some specific trait, they have NO idea what else they're bringing in. I think it's good to remember that Kenny Troiano has bred the same closed flock for over 25 years without ever bringing in any "new blood". Both he and Walt on here have written that a closed flock, when done properly can be breed indefinitely without any problems.

God Bless,

 

[Pathfinders]

Metella, For some reason the auto-quote feature isn't working this morning, so I'll manually do so. You posted:

I want to get to the important things for me - like - in that pic Pathfinder - your netting is NOT sagging. I"m ticked. I have it and it sags no matter that I pull it as far and tight as the stakes will allow - so I bought some step in posts and they don't "hook" on the netting in the perfect spots - so I still get some sag and it is NOT taking the electric - My husband says it is because of the grass -but I don't have a weekwacker & was hoping the chickies would do that - so ..... any tips about poultry netting ?

Well, you're looking at my netting about an hour after I set it up, and in some spots it is sagging, where we had to use extra posts too. It will get worse as time passes, I am sure.

One thing you have to do in order to get the electric aspect to work is to cut the grass down really low. We have several spots where we're using it where the grass has grown all up into it, and I dread having to move it because it's such a pita, and you have to be careful about not ripping the netting itself.

I do know that in the past we've used Roundup along the line where it is, but I really hate that stuff, and I am about to start using white vinegar instead, as I've read it's just as effective at killing weeds. But you don't want to do that unless you're going to keep the netting in the same place all the time, rather than use it rotationally.

007Medic has some good points, and as well, a good Livestock Guardian Dog (or two) will also help keep predators at bay, I believe Little Nana ranges all her birds at all times, and has no issues because of her dogs. But getting dogs trained properly is work too, you can't just throw one out there and expect them to know what they're doing (as some folks do.) But a good one is worth his/her weight in gold (we have an Anatolian.)

 

[Metella]

Yep I have a nice setup - I have 5 acres of pasture ... around the house are pine, berry patches and some maples and such for a good over-story.

I do free-range in the evening when I am home - because I do have a bold momma fox that comes right up through the pasture - literally right by the horses ! To nab a chicken. So it is a bit dangerous for them just because that one fox now knows there is food up here - she actually stood about 25 feet from my yelling and flailing arms - and I could tell she was still debating whether to keep hunting or slink off !!! Bold. She has been seen by me in the morning, afternoon and evening. She even came back the day after I fired my hand cannon into the ground to scare her (.357 )

So the net is for the day when I cant' be home, but the chickies need some air and dust baths .... and I do want to move it every month or so - so they keep my bugs down .

Ah - ha ha ha on the just put up the fencing ! figures.

I got an English Shephard - all around farm dog who is just a pup now - well 10 months old. Great with all sizes of chickies so far. But hasn't run up against the fox yet - so I'll see if he is moved to do the right thing !!! I actually kind of baby him too much, because I fell in love and can't stand the thought of him running hot after a fox and getting shot by a neighbor, or run over by a car.

 

[Pathfinders]

Oh foxes can be bold as brass, I'll agree with that! We had one once that was right in the back yard (not the back 40, the back yard!) Interestingly, the guineas banded together and ran him off, funniest thing I've seen poultry do. They were just like "No way buddy!" and chased him back into the woods. I wish I'd gotten it on video.

 

[Pathfinders]

And just as an aside, I encourage those of you who don't get the Poultry Press to subscribe, it's full of great stuff! I was so gratified to get kudos from Robert Blosl in the Heritage Large Fowl thread here, where he said I did a great job in my article in same last month about color in Buckeyes: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/400344/heritage-large-fowl-thread/13220#post_11610393

If you've been thinking at all about subscribing, it's well worth it! Lots of good articles by all sorts of folks (I still love reading Jean Robokers's articles about Dutch even though I no longer breed them), plus show results, pics of winning birds, and upcoming show ads. Check it out at Poultrypress.com

 

[Timbuck]

Great looking chicks. They grow quickly. Where did you get them?