The Buckeye Thread

[Blueface]

As for there comparison; the buckeye and Indian game are fairly similar with comparisons in overall shape; it's the plumage and tail where they differ greatly. Obviously Indian game are much tighter feathered and their tails go below the horizon.

 

[Blueface]

Actual pics around 1900 are not really out there because cameras were not all that common. The old pics were all drawn or painted. Actual pics of the birds weren't around till around the 1910 give or take a couple years. I might have a few pics around that time frame but they wasn't as short stationed as they have become but as with the aseels; they most certainly had good sized bodies; all of the oriental breeds did.

 

[Blueface]

(Just saw you had posted a picture; thanks. )


So the Cornish of 1905 was basically all legs, with an exaggerated, wide body and, well, a teeny, tiny shrunken head? (no wonder the standard says "without the breadth of shoulder") Do you have more pictures of early Cornish and Buckeyes as bred by Nettie that you can post so we can compare?

Their heads aren't or weren't as small as you suggested. They still had a pretty good sized head on them but they had that bigger body. They were also medium to medium high stationed. The legs weren't overly long because balance and even proportional distribution were very important for the breed. I have plenty of pics of Nettie's old birds; I found a really amazing catalog from the early breed club and Jeff Lay come across a second one as well. These pics will be published in the book that I'm writing.

 

[slfarms]

Here is a nice pic I took out of one of my old books I've collect on orientals and the actual Indian game/Cornish of that time period. This memoir was conducted by Mr. Herbert Atkinson who was world famous for his studies on poultry around the turn of the century, The Cornish/Indian game of that time period closely resembled that of its foundation blood; the aseel.

Nice pictures. In looking at the head I see similarities to the buckeyes head. The wide body also. So the influence was definitely there of the Cornish/aseel from the beginning.

 

[Blueface]

"I don't see why not. Breeding any breed will result in some DQ and faults, but over time, if you have a good idea what you are selecting for and against, those faults will be less an less obvious."

{The reason why I purpose that idea is because I know a few breeders that have had birds for several years now, but even after 5, 6, or 7 years of breeding nothing really has changed. I've found that talk is cheap and people can talk about improving a flock but actually doing it is another topic all together. Maintaining a simple backyard flock is far easier than maintaing an exhibition flock. It's easy to talk about the ideologies centered around breeding or a brood plan on paper but actually doing it successfully is a whole different game.}


"You can still have a utility buckeye just as you can have a utility RIR. They can still be "pure" bred but don't share the same traits as exhibition birds. With how broad the SOP is and can interpreted; they can still fall under the general guidelines."

"Well of course, who said otherwise? It should go without saying that it's not difficult to start with a line of purebred birds and without ever adding anything else, breed them into the ground until all you have are "utility birds". Nothing hard about that at all, hatcheries do it all the time. But the ideal is to have ALL of your birds meet the Sop. They might not all have a picture perfect comb, or some otherwise minor defect as far as production is concerned, but there should be no doubt as to the breed. That's why, to me, it's the overall quality of the flock that counts, not whether they have a few big winning "show birds". I would rather purchase stock from a breeder whose birds (Both sexes, all ages) place in every class they are entered in."

{No one said anything to the contrary; it was a generalized statement for newbies. I've observed many utility flocks that do match the SOP because it can be generalized; especially in the buckeye breed! That is why some people get away with selling "show" birds when they are nothing more than utility stock. I've found that if a line of poultry is bred properly; it is possible to maintain them and not breed them into the ground without introducing new genes. I wonder how a big winning "show bird" would be possible if there was quality brood stock on both sides of the mating? Sure there is luck but if the same quality is being produced generation after generation; it speaks volumes}

 

[campbellorchard]

So,
My daughter who is in FFA has a coop in progress for her SAE..
My question to all of you who may know. The buckeyes at local fairs are few. But those monster white meat birds are all over the place. We have been talking about putting the bucks in her project for next year as a dual purpose entry not just in the meat class.
Her advisor isn't really knowledgable on FFA poultry etc.
Our thought was bucks are a renewable food source and conservation etc is part of her platform using recycled materials etc for the coop.
Any thoughts on bucks in FFA programs?
May be an odd question. But thought I'd ask.
And when showing birds for youth class any thoughts on preparing her? Other than knowing her SOP?
Thanks for letting me ramble over my coffee today.

 

[fowlman01]

"The legs should be close; but pay attention to the color of the leg."

Good advice on the color of the leg, but Buckeye legs should be set well apart. I can't think of any chicken that should have legs close together.

Walt

 

[Blueface]

"The [COLOR=FF0000]legs should be close[/COLOR]; but pay attention to the color of the leg."

Good advice on the color of the leg, but Buckeye legs should be set well apart. I can't think of any chicken that should have legs close together.

Walt

Walt I was refering to the color of the legs between utility stock and exhibition stock; ideally they should be the same but that isn't always the case. As far the spacing to the legs you are correct but isn't spacing of the legs directly related to type? As I mentioned; type should be consistent between both. So, yes the spacing should resemble that of a large framed bird, be it the Indian game or the other LF genes in the breed. It's good you bring that aspect up; I've noticed that the wider the back gets; the farther the spread between the legs become. On many of my birds now; it is not uncommon to be able to put the entire width of your hand between the legs even at 7-8 months of age.

 

[slfarms]

Let's discuss temperament and if breeding selection has an impact on mentality. In the past some lines of buckeyes were described as mean as snakes. I owned such a bird(deceased now).

I think inbreeding to bring the bucks back from the brink of extinction and not selecting temperment as a trait brought this about.

Purdue is running studies on a line of egg layers were they are selectively breeding the pecking trait out of the egg layers which are confined to small areas.

As buck breeders should we also explore breeding for temperment? Or are the ones that display natural meanness mentally unstable? Or another option is it the "game" coming out in them from a recessive gene?

 

[Blueface]

Let's discuss temperament and if breeding selection has an impact on mentality. In the past some lines of buckeyes were described as mean as snakes. I owned such a bird(deceased now).

I think inbreeding to bring the bucks back from the brink of extinction and not selecting temperment as a trait brought this about.

Purdue is running studies on a line of egg layers were they are selectively breeding the pecking trait out of the egg layers which are confined to small areas.

As buck breeders should we also explore breeding for temperment? Or are the ones that display natural meanness mentally unstable? Or another option is it the "game" coming out in them from a recessive gene?

NICE! Good subject