The Buckeye Thread

[buckeyechicken]

I think a person should look for Type color, weight, comb, beak, head, color of the feet, Feather quality, Tail angle, size of the tail, length of the back, size of head, Type, weight, should be the same in the utility/barnyard as in the show bird. The beaks and heads in utility chickens are often longer and narrow they look like a snake head IMO. The feather quality of a show bird is larger in width, and show a healthy bird. I am not saying utility birds feathers do not show a healthy bird because they can and do. The utility chicken is often lighter than the mahogany color. Color should be consistent in the bird no light spots. The comb is another thing the comb should be as true to standards as possible you have combs that are big and small with no visible peas or peas that are not in rows or all over the place in utility chickens. .If a chicken is show or utility they will show traits of the SOP. Utility Chickens are not as defined in their traits as show chickens. Show chickens are groomed and bred to show standards, of the SOP. This is my two cents worth and my opinion only.

 

[HappyBuckeye]

IMO a show quality bird should be an exceptional specimen of the breed. The utility or barnyard stock may be nice looking healthy birds and fine examples of the breed, but they lack some of the specific traits that make up show stock.
It takes a competent breeder's skill to develop and maintain show stock. One cannot simply acquire 'show stock' from another breeder, turn them loose and expect to continue to have a show worthy line for more than a generation or two.
It is the skill and competency of the breeder, carefully selecting the breeding pens and consistently culling the "less perfect" offspring that distinguishes show stock from utility or even barnyard stock.

 

[Blueface]

I guess as we get into this phase. For us, it's getting out the SOP, looking closely at those that have the best attributes such as the tighter combs wing carriage etc. and marking them for possible shows in the spring.

Tighter combs are good; make sure they are reasonably defined and lifter to much off the head. You mention wing carriage; that has been mentioned here before. This often varies a few degrees in angle. I've noticed birds that carry their wings to high and it makes the saddle poof out and I've noticed birds that have a slightly lower angle to the skirt of the saddle. IMO, I'd prefer the latter because the saddle lays down better and provides a smooth appearance. Opinions vary on that though. I feel that there is more to worry about regarding the length of the wing than the small carriage difference. Of course, these details are often overlooked in a backyard setting

 

[buffalogal]

Speaking of show stock versus utility/barnyard stock. What are some of the differences between the two?

Ideally, there should be no difference between 'show stock' and utility/barnyard stock. Regarding the type and conformation, everything that makes any of the heritage breeds thrifty and productive is written into the standard, so the only noticeable difference might be the color. (since perfect color and marking are absolutely the least important part of the bird as far as being useful or being able to reproduce itself) that's as much true for buckeyes as it is for Ancona, Australorps, Dominiques, leghorns, Rocks or Wyandottes.

 

[Marengoite]

However.....
A person cannot always find a breeder within a reasonable distance due to the fact that some areas, there just aren't any Buckeyes to be seen. So then you might ask them to send you plenty of pictures of their actual breeding birds or a video is even better. Any breeder who is worth scratch will take the time to talk to you about the birds they have to offer. A really good one will even tell you what they do and don't like about the birds they have and breed and what they are trying to improve.
It is also understandable that not every one is looking for that picture perfect champion show bird, some just need good birds that represent the breed well that they can enjoy as their backyard flock.

I think that's why reputation and recommendations are so important. I like to chat up folks at shows and here on BYC to see what they think of stock from so-and-so. Then I compare notes. "He's got great birds" is nowhere near as helpful as, "His birds are above-average layers for the breed." I like feedback that is direct and to the point.

And yes, there are some folks I'd mail order from in a heartbeat. Others, not so much. All based on reputation and now based on experience.

 

[Marengoite]

Speaking of show stock versus utility/barnyard stock. What are some of the differences between the two? I spoke with a very good buckeye judge here recently and he also mentioned that there is definitely a difference between the two. This can be said with many breeds of poultry. What are some of the differences between the two?

Barnyard stock is aimed at utility. I ordered some Silver Spangled Hamburgs from Meyers and one of the chicks ended up with a single comb. Dandy little layer, but not SOP. Since I got eggs from her, she was perfectly suited to the laying pen, but none of them were anything I'd want to show.

I imagine barnyard Buckeyes would have a lot of fluff in the butt, have more of a lean and racy look like production reds, and ugly combs. They might lay like crazy, but they aren't something you'd ever want to take out.

And this brings up a point. In my opinion and for what it's worth, the Buckeye being a dual purpose breed, should be very utilitarian, even in the showiest of show stock. A Buckeye that doesn't lay and a cockerel that doesn't fill out (albeit a LOT slower than a Cornish cross) misses the whole point of having the breed. Part of breed preservation is preserving the FUNCTIONAL aspect of the breed and not just it's looks. Kind of like preserving draft horses isn't beneficial if they can't pull and aren't biddable to harness. Or to put it differently ALL show Buckeyes should be able to hold their own in the barnyard. Doesn't mean the barnyard fowl belong in the show pen, though.

Just my opinion.

 

[Blueface]

Ideally, there should be no difference between 'show stock' and utility/barnyard stock. Regarding the type and conformation, everything that makes any of the heritage breeds thrifty and productive is written into the standard, so the only noticeable difference might be the color.

Sure sounds good on paper doesn't it. IMHO that is simply not the case. You can still have a utility buckeye just as you can have a utility RIR. They can still be "pure" bred but don't share the same traits as exhibition birds. With how broad the SOP is and can interpreted; they can still fall under the general guidelines.
All Buckeyes "should" be the same regardless; type should be the same, type is universal; although the slightly longer birds should produce more eggs; IMO. Weight which is directly related to type should also be universal. The legs should be close; but pay attention to the color of the leg. I've observed some utility flocks that have very light colored legs approaching white. Overall color and head differ greatly,IMO. The beaks are often more narrow and longer in utility flocks, the heads are also longer and more narrow. I've noticed that quite a bit with many of the buckeyes I've seen exhibited. Combs are often all over the place based on a nice pea comb. Definition of the comb is often a problem with both Exhibition and backyard buckeyes alike. Feather quality is a big one; IMO. Exhibition birds in general are known for broad, wide, healthy feathers that have definition. That trait is frequently overlooked in backyard flocks. Utility buckeyes are often lighter in overall color and darkness of mahogany. You can see the difference that I speak of in the color contrast of the red and black in the tail. IMO, with a properly colored buckeye the difference between the red and black in the tail won't be as obvious to the naked eye. The color should also be even throughout the body of which is not always the case. One thing that is not often mentioned is the size and shape of the tail.

 

[Blueface]

The breed has a strong Cornish resemblance which brings up the whole concept of feather type. Buckeyes are supposed to be a tighter feathered bird! The rest of the American class are puff balls in comparison with the buckeyes. I've observed that very problem in the breed! Many of the utility flocks have it. This fluffy appearance can often be observed in the thighs and saddle/back areas of the breed. In the females it is more frequently noticed.

 

[Marengoite]

Sure sounds good on paper doesn't it. IMHO that is simply not the case. You can still have a utility buckeye just as you can have a utility RIR. They can still be "pure" bred but don't share the same traits as exhibition birds. With how broad the SOP is and can interpreted; they can still fall under the general guidelines.
All Buckeyes "should" be the same regardless; type should be the same, type is universal; although the slightly longer birds should produce more eggs; IMO. Weight which is directly related to type should also be universal. The legs should be close; but pay attention to the color of the leg. I've observed some utility flocks that have very light colored legs approaching white. Overall color and head differ greatly,IMO. The beaks are often more narrow and longer in utility flocks, the heads are also longer and more narrow. I've noticed that quite a bit with many of the buckeyes I've seen exhibited. Combs are often all over the place based on a nice pea comb. Definition of the comb is often a problem with both Exhibition and backyard buckeyes alike. Feather quality is a big one; IMO. Exhibition birds in general are known for broad, wide, healthy feathers that have definition. That trait is frequently overlooked in backyard flocks. Utility buckeyes are often lighter in overall color and darkness of mahogany. You can see the difference that I speak of in the color contrast of the red and black in the tail. IMO, with a properly colored buckeye the difference between the red and black in the tail won't be as obvious to the naked eye. The color should also be even throughout the body of which is not always the case. One thing that is not often mentioned is the size and shape of the tail.

Joe,

Leg color should be an obvious one. I had bright yellow legs on all my pullets due to their free ranging diet. However, when they started laying, and also through the winter, their legs lightened considerably. I would think light leg color would be an obvious indicator of a barnyard chicken.

Is feather condition affected by laying? In other words, is a heavy layer going to be in poorer condition than a light layer?

 

[Blueface]

Is feather condition affected by laying? In other words, is a heavy layer going to be in poorer condition than a light layer?

I don't think the feather quality should be if the genes are there. Many of my birds have very nice feathers and are laying just fine. The molt has slowed the egg production but just a bit. I've not noticed the fading in leg color when my birds are laying; but mine also have a strong reddish horn color so that may help me not notice. As for the condition; it depends on how busy the cock bird is