The Buckeye Thread

[Minniechickmama]

Blackbriars, that sounds like a good start. Ten grams more than what my dark cornish hens started laying. The egg size got bigger in a hurry. I'm still not sure which of my eggs are from my Buckeyes! Only four of my pullets are Buckeyes.

LF Cornish, for their massive body, only lay medium sized eggs. I think it is a bit amusing that they start out so small too, almost bantam small, but then grow into these massive, bulky birds. I was just putting topical and leg bands on the Cornish last night and it always amazes me to feel and see what they have grown into.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

LF Cornish, for their massive body, only lay medium sized eggs. I think it is a bit amusing that they start out so small too, almost bantam small, but then grow into these massive, bulky birds. I was just putting topical and leg bands on the Cornish last night and it always amazes me to feel and see what they have grown into.

It's funny when I hatched out the Cornish and Buckeyes together the Cornish were way a head of the buckeyes as young chicks- feathered in much faster and grew much bigger sooner- and then all of a sudden the Buckeyes outgrew the cornish. My Buckeye rooster towers over my same age Cornish rooster. At 23 weeks the Buckeye pullets look much bigger than the Cornish hens although they probably weigh about the same. Next time I'm going to pay closer attention to the growth rates, now that I know what to expect and what to look for. The Cornish are so much denser than the Buckeyes- little meaty soccer balls- I'm sure the Cornish weigh more. The Cornish can sure pack a lot of weight onto what looks like a smallish frame. They ought to be ashamed of themselves, such puny eggs! I'm going to try to select for a bigger egg from both Buckeyes and Cornish, I'm sure they are capable of a decent size egg (60 grams is what I want!) I read that post by Jeff Lay about how he selected for better egg laying from his original Buckeye stock that laid only 85 eggs per year.

 

[hellbender]

It's funny when I hatched out the Cornish and Buckeyes together the Cornish were way a head of the buckeyes as young chicks- feathered in much faster and grew much bigger sooner- and then all of a sudden the Buckeyes outgrew the cornish. My Buckeye rooster towers over my same age Cornish rooster. At 23 weeks the Buckeye pullets look much bigger than the Cornish hens although they probably weigh about the same. Next time I'm going to pay closer attention to the growth rates, now that I know what to expect and what to look for. The Cornish are so much denser than the Buckeyes- little meaty soccer balls- I'm sure the Cornish weigh more. The Cornish can sure pack a lot of weight onto what looks like a smallish frame. They ought to be ashamed of themselves, such puny eggs! I'm going to try to select for a bigger egg from both Buckeyes and Cornish, I'm sure they are capable of a decent size egg (60 grams is what I want!) I read that post by Jeff Lay about how he selected for better egg laying from his original Buckeye stock that laid only 85 eggs per year.

Be careful what you wish for. The cornish don't have the body capacity to handle large eggs. If one were able to somehow increase the Cornish egg size, would almost certainly risk the prospects of the pullets/hens becoming egg-bound.

 

[Minniechickmama]

I am with hellbender. I have actually caught a Cornish hen in mid-prolapse and was able to catch it before she got soiled or fully prolapsed. She was fine after, but I had one in that pen that was laying a few too many double yolkers for my comfort.
I agree the Cornish are dense, hefty birds once they start growing, but so are my Buckeyes to be honest. You want some beefy chicks, cross the two (Buck rooster over a Cornish hen)! I have never had Buckeyes that were so poor as to lay only 85 eggs in a year, that would be pitiful and good reason to find a new line. I know once mine get laying, usually by mid to late January with the addition of lights, they are all laying almost daily, or have been in the past 6+ years I have had them. They do so until about July when it heats up to 90-100 degrees here, then they drop in egg production somewhat and lay less, like 4-5 times per week until the molt. What that comes to in numbers, I would have to go figure. If I got low numbers of eggs from them, I would stop to count, but that hasn't been the case so far. However, this coming season I do plan to start taking an even closer look at how many eggs I am getting since my sales will be mostly hatching eggs or started birds that won't make my breeding program for the following year.
Cornish for laying, on the other hand..LOL..I think mine have actually laid above average this last year, but if I can get over 100 eggs per hen from them, I am ecstatic. I even have some of those DCs that get so broody I can't break them about August. I don't hatch at that time of year, so I have never allowed them to brood, but I know from conversations online that they do a pretty good job of it when allowed to. I prefer doing mine the artificial way and lots earlier in the year so they are full-grown and laying before Summer's end so I don't have so many extras around when the weather starts cooling, although, with the Cornish, I have hatched in Summer just to have more to choose from for breeding selection. If I had had the room for it, I should have been hatching them all Summer this year since I didn't get many out before I shut down the incubators. My intent when I first started with them to was set every Cornish egg I got, but that is not always very practical from a financial or logistic point of view.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

Hellbender and Minniechickmama, is this true about being eggbound due to large eggs of the Cornish that are more hatchery type too? Or just the extreme exhibition Cornish? Mine seem to be in between. I have a copy of Hogarth's Call of the Hen, what is the limiting factor of the hen's capacity that would make a hen prone to being egg bound? I've read and re read the book a few times, but I haven't applied it to my hens (except for a few- I understand the distance between the pelvic bones part and how the vent looks, but they have only just started laying so it's probably too early to do a good assessment, right?) The hatching eggs I got my cornish from were in the 52-55 gram range, would selecting for 5 more grams be excessive, do you think? Embarrassingly I'm not exactly sure yet which ones of my eggs are coming from the Buckeyes. The Buckeye hatching eggs I got were very long, but I'm not seeing any eggs like that.

The Cornish shell quality was superb, and that's a feature I'd like in my project birds. Hence the first cross will be buckeye (for temperament and all around good chicken-ness, to cornish, for their smarts and egg quality, but these offspring will be crossed again to Anconas. This is just for fun- my pea combed white- eggshell layer project.

 

[Minniechickmama]

Hellbender and Minniechickmama, is this true about being eggbound due to large eggs of the Cornish that are more hatchery type too? Or just the extreme exhibition Cornish? Mine seem to be in between. I have a copy of Hogarth's Call of the Hen, what is the limiting factor of the hen's capacity that would make a hen prone to being egg bound? I've read and re read the book a few times, but I haven't applied it to my hens (except for a few- I understand the distance between the pelvic bones part and how the vent looks, but they have only just started laying so it's probably too early to do a good assessment, right?) The hatching eggs I got my cornish from were in the 52-55 gram range, would selecting for 5 more grams be excessive, do you think? Embarrassingly I'm not exactly sure yet which ones of my eggs are coming from the Buckeyes. The Buckeye hatching eggs I got were very long, but I'm not seeing any eggs like that.

The Cornish shell quality was superb, and that's a feature I'd like in my project birds. Hence the first cross will be buckeye (for temperament and all around good chicken-ness, to cornish, for their smarts and egg quality, but these offspring will be crossed again to Anconas. This is just for fun- my pea combed white- eggshell layer project.

I believe part to the reason behind the smaller egg capacity in the Cornish may be because they are shorter framed, shorter pelvic bones than other breeds that leads to the more stout appearance, plus the mass they carry has to contribute. Even if their shorter pelvic bones are flexible, which they will be during laying cycles, they are still shorter and have less 'give'. Also, the overall capacity of their body is restricted by the mass they carry. This is just my observation on this, how that would play out scientifically, I don't know.

That is a cool idea for northern folks to want a pea comb white eggers. I do like seeing a mix of egg colors in my cartons, and having a couple of Minorcas around for those has been nice, but I know they start getting thin-shelled on me when they are approaching molt. I may, one day work on something like you are trying, but for now, I will be happy with what I have here.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

I will have to revise my expectations from the Cornish then it seems!
So for Buckeyes, that aren't as extreme as the Cornish, what do you think would be the maximum sized egg that a Buckeye should be able to produce regularly without issues, and still look like a decent Buckeye? Is 60-65 grams out of line for them too?

 

[hellbender]

I will have to revise my expectations from the Cornish then it seems!
So for Buckeyes, that aren't as extreme as the Cornish, what do you think would be the maximum sized egg that a Buckeye should be able to produce regularly without issues, and still look like a decent Buckeye? Is 60-65 grams out of line for them too?

It is unrealistic to expect extremely large eggs from any large 'dual' breed. Take what you can get (with in reason) and be happy with the trade-off of extra good helpings of meat. If I wanted very large eggs on a consistent basis...I would buy a flock High Quality White Leghorns...posted with all due respect.

RON

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

It is unrealistic to expect extremely large eggs from any large 'dual' breed. Take what you can get (with in reason) and be happy with the trade-off of extra good helpings of meat. If I wanted very large eggs on a consistent basis...I would buy a flock High Quality White Leghorns...posted with all due respect.

RON

Sigh.......... I may have to do that. Rose comb buffs would be nice! But pretty much unavailable here.
So 65 grams you think is unrealistic for a dual purpose breed? What would be reasonable?

 

[Minniechickmama]

I don't weigh a lot of eggs, only when curiosity over a very large or very small one presents itself. My Buckeyes lay large eggs, for the most part, in comparison with those you would buy from the store. I find very large eggs that are not double yolk to have an excess of what you might consider 'white', or more of a wateriness in addition to the white. I much prefer an average sized egg that has a firm yolk and white. Once mine get back to laying, I will happily check them for weight. I pretty much consider them a good size if they fit well in the incubator rack or fit snugly in a carton. I do get some that are bigger which make that difficult, but bigger eggs make for more room in the shell for a chick to grow in. Buckeye eggs are far bigger though than most of my Cornish.