The Dorking Breeders thread

[kimberly35042]

Oh...I know now why there are so few people that keep multiple cock birds. It can be a royal pain in the ***.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Oh...I know now why there are so few people that keep multiple cock birds. It can be a royal pain in the ***.

That means that you need an infrastructural shift. You need to have as many breeding quarters/stalls as cocks you are going to keep, if you want the experience to be smooth and sustainable.

Keeping multiple cocks is also the only was to have a working breeding program that is contained, and having a contained program is the only way to see results. Keeping multiple cock birds, one breeds from fewer hens in a system that resembles a rabbitry pedigree, if don small trios and quads. My friend Don Nelson, a long time APA judge and RIR breeder honored this last year at the APA National, swears by four pens. The late Fred Jeffrey, a poultry professor at UMASS Amherst, wrote of 5 to 6 cocks.

is one of the reasons, though, that few people can maintain well multiple varieties or breeds, because to make it sustainable, without an overage of effort, one is needing too much infrastructure. Usually when one sees folks for which everything is always going wrong; its because they have too many hands in the pot to make it balance. Most of us go there, and a few of us find our way back.

Jennifer, your Reds are going to do well. Only use the Tice chick if it's worthy. There are no signs of inbreeding with Horstman's Reds. Be sure to show them. Regular attendance of APA shows combined with study will be the surest way to improve your breeding. I cannot stress enough that the notions of homesteading appropriate productivity and exhibition are very complementary. APA culture is at the heart of being a breeder, and I've known very few people who became breeders without it. Nowadays with the internet, you're an online breeder just because you can plug in an incubator, but in the world of excellent chicks, you're a breeder when other breeders recognize you as a breeder. And they will do so once you've produced something that impresses them who know what is impressive. When that happens, you'll know you're getting somewhere.

Regular showing is also a way by which you'll catch problems that are creeping in under your radar. We are all dialed in to certain qualities, but there are other things we do not see. I like the idea that "it takes a village to breed a chicken." The best strains in the country of any breed you can think of are the product of a central breeder who has multiple masters whispering in his or her ear. That will only happen if you attend shows. Also, befriend the judges and volunteer at the club meets, you want to get those judges over for dinner.

Kimberley, what variety are you raising?

 

[ki4got]

Quote:
I have 2 roosters, my larger and better typed one is from mcmurray lines, the other is from gene Patterson lines. 3 of the hens are from primarily mcmurray lines the other 3 are mcmurray/Patterson lines. none are directly from my rooster, but from another roo I had previously and sold. my plan is to put them all with the roo they have right now, then later in the year once I get a good amount hatched, I'll switch roos and see what the Patterson roo produces with them, keeping the best offspring from both breedings to continue with.

as for what I'm trying to accomplish, I'm trying to get the birds back up to SOP size. their type is pretty good overall.

 

[ki4got]

Oh...I know now why there are so few people that keep multiple cock birds. It can be a royal pain in the ***.

opinions vary. LOL I keep at least 2 roosters for each variety when I can. my goal once my pens are complete, is to have at least 3 quads per variety set up. during the off-season, everyone free ranges and gets along quite well.

 

[kimberly35042]

I'm excited to see this new thread. Thanks for starting it. My chicks from Dick Horstman should arrive next week. Then I need to be patient and wait for them to grow out to see what I have and where I'm starting. I think a standard bred bird should have utility. I think its what those standards dictate. I know its going to take me a bit to know my birds and what I'm working with. I know where I want to get. I want birds that are roasters at 24-26 weeks. I also think my pullets should be laying by this age. I want them to lay during the winter. This doesn't mean that I can pick my breeders at this age, but I think I should be able to do a cull down at that age. Except I don't have the experience or the eye to do this. So I'm real happy to see this thread because I hope it can help me in figuring out my cull periods.

I want big, stunning standard bred birds that have utility.

Jennifer

Jennifer, I could not have said any of this better myself "big stunning standard bred birds that have utility". Perfecto!

~Kim

 

[kimberly35042]

Quote:
I kept all 4 brothers so I could get "families" within the families going. This year I will actually get to make some choices about going forward. My guys grow up ranging and did VERY well with it, but breeding season and rotating cocks and such takes a good 4 months of GOOD infrastructure--that is a long time for confinement.
Mine is still a work in progress, but it is functional with large roomy pens that the breeders seem happy with. I won't stand for overcrowding, and I hope to continue the project. Mainly need more trees, bushes and such for a better turnout area. I can at least rotate pens and let them out during breeding season as well as range in the off season.

 

[kimberly35042]

Quote:

I have the reds from Rudy, and they are a great start. I'm very pleased, BUT there is work to be done! "it takes a village" -- heehee, I like that.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

It sounds like folks have cool plans.

A quick reminder from the BYC staff regarding this new section: "Participants are encouraged to understand and use the terminology found in the APA Standard of Perfection and avoid usage of terminology that might be considered "slang" in the poultry world."

The term "roo" is not one used in APA/ABA culture; it is generally seen as a warning flag. We use the terms cock/cock bird, hen, cockerel, and pullet. Rooster is at times heard but never roo.

Maintaining only one or two cock birds will land one in a genetic bottleneck. It will create a need to import stock into one's flock. Sometimes folks do that who don't really want to maintain a breeding flock but rather are just doing a side project for exhibition knowing that they will have to return regularly to a breeder for new blood to freshen things up. This allows one to keep more varieties or breeds, but it often impacts one's ability to make progress in the project.

Generally speaking, the more breeds or varieties one maintains, the lesser are expectations for quality.

 

[pigsflyacres]

Absolutely maintaining multiple cock birds requires good infrastructure. I've gotten away with a few things in the past with the dorkings only. When I throw them all back together after the breeding season, there are scuffles, but they work it out with little bloodshed as long as there is lots of room. I've also used older birds to teach teenagers their place. I had one Red hen that was the product of my Red xSG cross. She was here forever before I lost her to a predator(mostly because she could fly over and thru anything). She would use her spurs on young cockerels in a very impressive manner. They were always very respectful after spending time with her. She was not a great specimen, but was worth her weight in gold for her broody abilities and keeping peace in the flock. I have no idea if this method will work for me again. That is why I'm not counting on it. My breeding pens are set up with flexibility. My plan is to breed with 4 cock birds in 4 pens. I'll have a couple stand bys in with the layers if I need them. I might not be able to pull that off the first year, but I will in subsequent years.

I think its a delicate balance to breed in such a way to have a wide genetic base so as to maintain vigor, but tightly enough that your birds are consistent. Using clans appears to give the best chance of this based on my reading. And if you aren't breeding for 'it', you are breeding against 'it'. So apparent in dogs and horses too.

Jennifer

 

[kimberly35042]

hmmm... I may be on the wrong thread. There aren't many shows in the south, but I would like to get 4H involved with the dorkings. Mainly I want "more meat around the wishbone", and like Jennifer (@pigsflyacres ) would like roasters at 24 weeks. I should keep better records, but I'm not getting as many eggs as I would expect either. So, in addition to what I consider a worthwhile breed, I'm hoping the freezer benefits as well. And for now, my favorite bird "Medium" is keeping Nankins company in the baby yard as I enjoy his company. Medium infers hackle color only-- his weight is good and type is nice other than maybe a tad leggy which may change with some age. That will be fun to see.