The Dorking Breeders thread

[capayvalleychick]

Oh my, looks like it's time for me to get a new SOP. My 1998 version doesn't even list the Cuckoo. I just went to the Dorking Breeder's club website (recently overhauled and beautiful -- good job to whoever did that) which says both the RC and SC Cuckoo were admitted to the SOP in 1998 (apparently after that year's SOP was published). All this time I've spent on multiple BYC Dorking threads for over two years and everyone has always stated that the Colored, White, SG and Red were the only SOP-approved colors. I remember someone bringing up Cuckoo a few times and they were always told it wasn't as "valid" as the other colors. Sorry to whoever I may have offended or discouraged for any part I played in this. I honestly didn't know.

RhodeRunner, you're absolutely right -- both my 1998 SOP and the Dorking Breeder's Club version of the SOP (which I assume is current since the website was just revamped) makes no mention that I can find of the proper comb type for the Reds, other than in the picture. In the 1998 version under "Dorkings, Shape -- Male" there are two listings for Comb, which are categorized by color as follows:

COMB: Silver-Gray and Colored Dorkings -- Single; (then the description of a single comb)
COMB: White Dorkings -- Rose; (then the description of a rose comb).

The description under "Dorkings, Shape -- Female" is exactly the same, stating in both comb types that it is similar to the male but much smaller, and in the SC falling over to one side.

Since there are not pictures of every color or variation of every breed described in the SOP, it cannot be assumed that the RC Red is not accepted just because there is no picture of one. I would assume that the picture of the SC Red does mean that the SC Red is accepted.

On the Dorking Breeders Club website, their description of the body shape simply says "single or rose comb" without specifying which comb variety goes with which color, almost implying that all colors could have either comb type.

According to the Dorking Breeder's Club website, the Colored, SG, and White Dorkings were admitted in 1874, and the Red was not admitted until 1995. I suspect that when the description for the Red was written the plan was to keep the "Shape" the same for all Dorking varieties, and to just add the written description for the new color. Someone forgot that the "Shape" writeup (which is where the comb type is listed, not in the "Color" writeup) had two different comb descriptions which were mutually exclusive and based on color (at least at the time, as the Cuckoo is the only color that specifies that it allows either a SC or a RC, and it was admitted to the SOP three years later).

Sooooooo, does anyone know for sure, or have we all just been assuming that the RC Red wasn't admitted based on repeated information that may or may not be right (like with all the misinformation about the Cuckoo)?????

I never noticed that anyone said the Cuckoo wasn't in the standard, or I would have corrected them.

I know a couple people have said that it shouldn't have been admitted.
I'm not a judge but I would say that the RC Red is not standard. There are judges on BYC to ask, if you want absolute proof. Try asking fowlman01.

 

[dickhorstman]

Single Comb is the only variety of Red Dorking accepted.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

SOP varieties:

RC White
SC Red
SC Colored
SC SG
SC & RC Cuckoo

I have never known a judge who thought the Cuckoos should have been admitted, but I have talked with several who thought that they had no business being admitted. Indeed, they are one of the examples commonly given as an example for which requirements for admission needed to be tightened up so that a repeat performance would not happen.

Cuckoo was never an important color of Dorking.

 

[Dirt Farmer]

I'm wondering other people's experience with Colored Dorking. I received 16 from Sand Hill last fall. I've got three, what I consider to be very nice pullets growing. Other pullets have fairly nice type and better size but the coloration is more towards Dark Dorking, one even has a rose comb. I may still use the single comb birds because I suspect the only difference between Colored and Dark is color selection. But the real mystery to me is this: the cockerel coloration varies from straw, to white and even red. The white one could pass for a silver grey. He had some black hackle stripping but so do many silver grey that I've seen. I didn't much care for him for other reasons as well and my neighbor is fattening him up. I'm saving the two straw colored, although one is very dark (as are most of the females) with a scant tail at this early stage. Finally I have a fourth that overall is the best of the bunch. Longer, heavier, not having a scanty tail, but looks like a pure Red Dorking to me. One of the females looks like a Red as well, but her hackle is more black than golden. I've read somewhere that the Colored Dorking is a silver based bird with red modifiers that don't always act consistently. Or, I'm wondering if perhaps a Red Dorking slipped into the box somehow. If that's the case, I don't want to use him. If he's a somewhat extremely modified Colored Dorking I would consider using him for his other fine qualities, and to give a shot of Red to the hens breast.
Any opinions? Is there a sure fire way to tell a Red Dorking from a reddish Colored Dorking?
I do have one Colored cockerel that will for sure be used for breeding. Even if the red cockerel is an extreme example of a Colored, and wouldn't ruin the female appearance, would you use him?
These are only four months old so I have lots of time to ponder the choices.

 

[Rockashelle]

Dirt Farmer, do you have pictures you can post?

 

[Dirt Farmer]

Dirt Farmer, do you have pictures you can post?

I'll take some pictures on Saturday afternoon.

 

[Sydney Acres]

I have some Red Dorkings that I ordered from Sandhill 2 years ago. Originally I received 13 total, 7 pullet chicks and 6 cockerel chicks. Although they were listed as Reds, two of the hens (now two years old) are more Colored in appearance than Red. This year I did test breedings with the one Red rooster that I kept, mated to the two "Colored" hens and the two best Red hens (the "Colored" hens had the best frame and size, which is why I used them). The best "Colored" hen produced two Colored pullets and 5 Red cockerels, and the second best "Colored" hen produced one Red pullet, one Red cockerel, and one Colored cockerel with reddish saddle feathers. The best Red hen produced two Red pullets, one Red cockerel, and one Colored cockerel with reddish saddle feathers. The other Red hen produced only Red cockerels and pullets. (All four hens were mated to the same Red rooster.)

Sooo, my conclusion is that Sandhill has some merging between their Colored birds and their Red birds that will take more than one generation to breed out

Also, all of my foundation Red hens have more black in their head and hackle than golden. However, of the three Red F1 pullets that I bred (it was a cockerel heavy year, so very few pullets), each one had significantly more golden on her head and hackle than her mother, so at least that's going in the right direction.

Sandhill does have some mixing of their single comb and rose comb colored dorkings, so it's not surprising that you received a rose comb chick.

Lots of things may change between 4 months and 6 months and 10 months, so don't make any irreversible decisions on any birds with potential this early.

Colored are going to be a challenge to stabilize, and the only way to tell what's lurking in their genetics is to do test breedings to find out what these birds produce. Outward appearance doesn't tell the whole story. Hatch as many as your infrastructure/time/budget will allow, do pair matings using whatever system you prefer so you know who the parents are, and keep good records for multiple generations. That will tell you what your birds are made of, what they can produce, and eventually give you a blueprint towards selecting for certain traits and eliminating others. Good luck.

 

[Dirt Farmer]

I have some Red Dorkings that I ordered from Sandhill 2 years ago. Originally I received 13 total, 7 pullet chicks and 6 cockerel chicks. Although they were listed as Reds, two of the hens (now two years old) are more Colored in appearance than Red. This year I did test breedings with the one Red rooster that I kept, mated to the two "Colored" hens and the two best Red hens (the "Colored" hens had the best frame and size, which is why I used them). The best "Colored" hen produced two Colored pullets and 5 Red cockerels, and the second best "Colored" hen produced one Red pullet, one Red cockerel, and one Colored cockerel with reddish saddle feathers. The best Red hen produced two Red pullets, one Red cockerel, and one Colored cockerel with reddish saddle feathers. The other Red hen produced only Red cockerels and pullets. (All four hens were mated to the same Red rooster.)

Sooo, my conclusion is that Sandhill has some merging between their Colored birds and their Red birds that will take more than one generation to breed out

Also, all of my foundation Red hens have more black in their head and hackle than golden. However, of the three Red F1 pullets that I bred (it was a cockerel heavy year, so very few pullets), each one had significantly more golden on her head and hackle than her mother, so at least that's going in the right direction.

Sandhill does have some mixing of their single comb and rose comb colored dorkings, so it's not surprising that you received a rose comb chick.

Lots of things may change between 4 months and 6 months and 10 months, so don't make any irreversible decisions on any birds with potential this early.

Colored are going to be a challenge to stabilize, and the only way to tell what's lurking in their genetics is to do test breedings to find out what these birds produce. Outward appearance doesn't tell the whole story. Hatch as many as your infrastructure/time/budget will allow, do pair matings using whatever system you prefer so you know who the parents are, and keep good records for multiple generations. That will tell you what your birds are made of, what they can produce, and eventually give you a blueprint towards selecting for certain traits and eliminating others. Good luck.

Thank you for sharing that information. Due to space limitations and feed bills, I will probably end up only using those birds that are clearly identifiable as Colored in the first year. Then in subsequent years I will know any particularly silver or red cockerel's parentage. I was hasty in booting the silver cockerel but was keeping six in a 6 x 8 coop, that I usually only keep three in. Its my only bachelor pad.

Rockashelle, I'll drop in a picture of the Red cockerel later today. And maybe a few others.

 

[Dirt Farmer]

I'll take some pictures on Saturday afternoon.

Here's a sampling of some of the pullets and a comparison of the three cockerels. They are either 14 weeks or 17 weeks as the order was split. Overall I'm pleased, and feel that I have enough to get started.


The "red" pullet. The "Dark"




"Red" cockerel with Colored


"Red" cockerel with Colored #2

Welcome any comments but mostly just showing pictures for those interested, I've come to believe this must be the most unloved chicken in the Standard. Very hard to find any information after the 1920's.
You can click on image to enlarge.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
Oh yes, with that size pen you can't watch them grow out for long. The stress of overcrowding could keep the top contenders of the group from reaching their full potential. It's that infrastructure/time/budget issue that we all have to work within to do the best for our birds, and keep our birds doing their best.