The Dorking Breeders thread

[Dirt Farmer]

Thanks for the reply Sydney. The two I pulled tonight were 53.8g and 51.6g. I've got 3 pullets but was only breeding two. They are about 9 months old now (they were hatched July 18th). I also read that chicks born in spring do better but would waiting for the bigger eggs offset that advantage? So should I wait until next year?

Another logistics question: Right now I have the two hens separated so I can track which eggs belong to which hen. My plan is to setup 3 clans from the two clutches, breeding the Cock to one of the offspring pullets next year and two cockerels to the two hens. I can't figure out how to keep track of eggs without isolating the hens but they don't like it. Should I just group the trio and not worry about separating the eggs? I'm looking at small breeding, maybe 25 a year for now until I get more experience and just sticking to the three clans rotating sires.

I'm not a Dorking expert but in my general experience I think you're close. As a rule I don't breed from pullets that haven't been laying for at least four months. My casual observation from hatching is that there is an ideal egg size, and it is about 2 ounces (58g) give or take a bit. Smaller and larger seem to have lower hatch rates. This may have to do with the incubator set up being optimized for a typical egg. Another informal rule is that I wouldn't hatch from pullets two generations in a row. I do like to time hatches so that the resulting pullets come into lay during the period of decreasing day light. I believe this makes them better layers. You would probably have another month to let egg size increase some, and still accomplish that goal. I would hatch this year if I were in your situation. If you like the results you keep them. If you don't you still have your original stock to try again next year anyway. Selection is very important but numbers are as well. And I'm fond of saying, "free advice is usually worth the price". These are just my biases not science. Good luck.

 

[Sydney Acres]

I've also heard that hatching early in the spring is best, but living north of Seattle and free ranging my flock, I like to hatch after the rains decrease. Usually I aim for hatches between late April through late July, but it depends on your weather and your management style as to the best hatching time. Also, I like my pullets to be coming into lay in November/December, when my adults have stopped laying and my egg stores are getting low. I had not heard that this techniques makes them better layers, but it does make sense to some degree.

The issue of flock breeding vs trio breed vs pair breeding is quite complex, as there are excellent and accomplished breeders who use any of these methods. I personally prefer pair breeding, as I feel that I can make judgements about the offspring not just based on what it looks like, but also with the knowledge of the genetics that it's carrying, which cannot be done if you don't know who the parents are. But that's just me. There are five ways that I know of (and there may be more -- I'd love to hear all other options) to know which hen laid which egg without isolating the hens.

1. Trap nesting. This requires special equipment, and someone to check every two hours to release the trapped hens.
2. Separate the hens in side by side runs for just the morning hours (when most hens lay), and only collect the morning eggs.
3. Observe the hens in the nestbox every hour, and reach under a hen to check for an egg if she's sitting on one (if your hens are fairly tame). For this to work, you have to be able to recognize each hen by sight, as a leg band won't be visible.
4. Have two different breeds of hens -- have several in a pen that lay a colored egg, plus your one Dorking hen, who lays a white egg. The rooster can live with the harem, or just visit a few time a week. This does separate the two Dorking hens, but they wouldn't be alone. You would still have a harem social unit, combined with the benefit of pair breeding.
5. Gently infuse food coloring into the vent of a hen shortly before laying (I don't know how long this works, but I've heard only a few hours -- but might be longer). Use a different color for each hen. The food coloring will incorporate into the bloom when the egg is laid so the egg from each hen will be tinted a different color. I have never tried this. I don't know how much food coloring to use, whether to just hold the hen upside down and drip the coloring onto the vent or use a smooth tipped syringe to infuse inside, or what the risks or success rate are. But I'm sure someone out there knows all the details.

I have used both option #3 and #4. Option #3 is inefficient and time consuming, but when I only hatch 20 at a time from 4 different tame hens, it works for me. Option #4 is somewhat more hands-off, but requires more birds and more infrastructure, so there's the tradeoff.

Anyone have any other methods, or the details on the food coloring techinque? I'd love to hear them.

 

[DesertChic]

Thanks for the reply Sydney. The two I pulled tonight were 53.8g and 51.6g. I've got 3 pullets but was only breeding two. They are about 9 months old now (they were hatched July 18th). I also read that chicks born in spring do better but would waiting for the bigger eggs offset that advantage? So should I wait until next year?

Another logistics question: Right now I have the two hens separated so I can track which eggs belong to which hen. My plan is to setup 3 clans from the two clutches, breeding the Cock to one of the offspring pullets next year and two cockerels to the two hens. I can't figure out how to keep track of eggs without isolating the hens but they don't like it. Should I just group the trio and not worry about separating the eggs? I'm looking at small breeding, maybe 25 a year for now until I get more experience and just sticking to the three clans rotating sires.

This may sound a bit crazy, but another poster on another thread clued me into this technique and it's the one I plan to employ. Her suggestions was to include with your primary breeding hen another breed or two that lays a different colored egg. Then when you collect the fertilized eggs every day, you automatically know which one belongs to your breeding hen and which don't. I have lots of brown egg layers and will (hopefully) be hatching some blue egg layers soon, and I plan to include a couple of these girls in my Dorking breeding pen when the time comes. It makes it super easy to track who's who.


EDIT: LOL! I just read @Sydney Acres post above. I guess my suggestion was a bit redundant.

 

[Chestnut]

Thanks for the input. I have kids and so we have a variety of "pet" birds that all lay brown eggs and the Dorkings are the project birds. I could group them but it doesn't seem to help too much because I had the trio together initially because I only have one cockerel (the other having died this winter). They didn't like being separated from the flock even in set of 3. After I was sure they were fertile I separated them individually so I could keep track of who's egg is who. I like the idea of keeping track of genetics for the reason that its easier to track recessive traits.

These started laying in December and have been laying regular with the occasional day off or two. Sometimes I feel that some of those missing days were the hens laying later in the day while free ranging as we have found stashes of eggs out of the nesting box. It seems these Dorkings like laying on the ground more than up in the nesting boxes. It could be that we have a bossy production RR that won't let them use "her" nest box. They have 8 boxes to chose from but they all want to lay in the same one. Sometimes they lay on the litter in the coop. Just the Dorkings.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
LOL. That's ok. I came up with that plan originally just out of humane considerations to one of my hens. I had a very active rooster in with a single hen -- the traditional pair breeding setup. That's really not a good male:female ratio, so she was getting abused and he was getting frustrated. So I added more hens of my other breed to the pen and it worked great -- combination of harem social system with the perfect male:female ratio, and effectively pair breeding all in one pen. I posted the plan 3-4 years ago on a thread that was frequented by several "my way or the highway" breeders, and they tore it to shreds. It was amazing how many things they didn't like about, and how many negative comments they had about me personally, without listing any specific problems that it caused. It got really ugly. So I didn't post it again until recently, just as part of a list of possible solutions to a problem someone was having, like I did above. A few people loved it, commented on how helpful it was, passed it on, and now I see it pop up here and there. I love that!! Thank you for passing it on. It allows us to keep better track of our breeding program, and the entire flock is happy, all at the same time.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Thanks for the input. I have kids and so we have a variety of "pet" birds that all lay brown eggs and the Dorkings are the project birds. I could group them but it doesn't seem to help too much because I had the trio together initially because I only have one cockerel (the other having died this winter). They didn't like being separated from the flock even in set of 3. After I was sure they were fertile I separated them individually so I could keep track of who's egg is who. I like the idea of keeping track of genetics for the reason that its easier to track recessive traits.

These started laying in December and have been laying regular with the occasional day off or two. Sometimes I feel that some of those missing days were the hens laying later in the day while free ranging as we have found stashes of eggs out of the nesting box. It seems these Dorkings like laying on the ground more than up in the nesting boxes. It could be that we have a bossy production RR that won't let them use "her" nest box. They have 8 boxes to chose from but they all want to lay in the same one. Sometimes they lay on the litter in the coop. Just the Dorkings.

I think of mine as more like a semi-feral breed. Despite being very tame and large meat birds, they have excellent survival skills, fly well and often, and are very good at concealing their nests. Mine also prefer natural nests, usually under a bush or a large fern, and don't appreciate nestboxes as much as other breeds. They often like communal nests, and don't really like an empty nest site. When my first group of Dorkings were 6 months old I was wandering when they were going to start laying, as their combs appeared large and they were old enough, but I wasn't finding any eggs. Then one day I was out in the woods just outside the fenced yard and found a huge communal nest with 38 eggs in it.. That's when I started using ceramic eggs, to show them that other (closer, safer) nest sites would work just as well. I put four ceramic eggs in each area I wanted them to lay, and they started using the new nests (which were still on the ground under bushes, but at least within a fenced yard and in a known area). The next year some of the hens started using the nest boxes if the preferred nests are occupied, but they still prefer natural nesting.

 

[RhodeRunner]

Just curious, anyone hatch Red Dorkings with spangling? I have a few Reds that hatched with white tips on their feathers. I noticed it when they where in the brooder, but thought I would leave them alone and see what happens. It has only gotten more pronounced with age. I should probably take some photos of them. They sure are cute, but I don't know what I'm gonna do with them.

 

[neopolitancrazy]

.... It seems these Dorkings like laying on the ground more than up in the nesting boxes. It could be that we have a bossy production RR that won't let them use "her" nest box. They have 8 boxes to chose from but they all want to lay in the same one. Sometimes they lay on the litter in the coop. Just the Dorkings.

Dorkings are known for being bullied by other breeds, and hatchery RRs are known for their unpleasant temperaments. It is possible that the Dorkings would lay in a nest if the RR (or another bossy bird,) were not causing problems.
Best wishes,
Angela

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
Good point. Some of the Production Reds can be quite disruptive to how the flock functions, as the other birds just want to stay out of their way, at any cost.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Just curious, anyone hatch Red Dorkings with spangling? I have a few Reds that hatched with white tips on their feathers. I noticed it when they where in the brooder, but thought I would leave them alone and see what happens. It has only gotten more pronounced with age. I should probably take some photos of them. They sure are cute, but I don't know what I'm gonna do with them.

Not white tipped feathers. I do have some with black tipped feathers, as several of my birds are the color of the U.K. Red Dorkings instead of the U.S. Red Dorkings (the U.K. RDs hens are more dark brown red with black tips on the feathers, and the U.S. RDs are the typical red duckwing). Is it possible that a Speckled Sussex got into the mix somehow? That would certainly produce the pattern that you're describing. I do recall someone posting a picture of a Spangled Dorking, red with white tips, that looked like a low, long, and wide Speckled Sussex. I think it was a project bird owned by someone in the U.K., but it may have been in the U.S. It was absolutely beautiful, although not a SOP or BPS (British Poultry Standard) color. I'm not sure how they produced it.