The Evolution of Atlas: A Breeding (and Chat) Thread

[speckledhen]

Sorry to hear that, and hope the treatment will vanquish the demon again.

As far as vaccination, one friend of mine lost almost every young bird she had 2 years in a row before she started vaccinating. In an ideal world, where you have an unlimited amount of space to raise many birds, not vaccinating birds may eventually lead to resistance. In her case, she would never be able to keep a laying flock again if she does not vaccinate. Since all birds stay at her place until they pass on I do not think vaccinating them is affecting the virus in any significant way. It is very hard to see each of your hatchlings die just as they approach laying age and you have become attached to them.

I also think it unlikely that vaccinations alone make the virus stronger. It a virus that readily mutates on its own without the help of vaccination, and would, like the Flu virus, be constantly challenging resistance. Chickens are just unfortunately more susceptible than many other birds species.

I had never heard it stated like this article did. Poultry World is geared to the commercial industry, if I recall. Why they'd much care about this, I'm not sure, though I guess pastured poultry operations might.

Honestly, I think there are Mareks diagnoses when it is not Mareks by labs that just "assume" when they see a tumor that it is MD and don't actually test. Bacterial infections that rage in the body can send bacteria through the bloodstream and form little tumors all over the place, I was told emphatically by my "long-distance vet" who mainly treats thoroughbreds in Kentucky, though he doctored Ladyhawk's chickens as well when he was out for her Arabian mare, stitched up Lancelot after a fox brawl, etc. He said labs are getting very lazy, especially ones where the testing is free, one of those "you get what you pay for" kind of things. Plus, state labs as a whole really don't give a crap about backyard flocks since they are here for the benefit of commercial flocks anyway. In absence of any signs of the disease other than some tumors they don't even test, a lab report that says MD is just a paper towel, IMO.

On the other hand, and this is just me, if I couldn't keep chickens alive because of MD and had to vaccinate for it just to keep them (and the consumer vaccine is useless, according to folks in the know anyway-it MUST be the hatchery one that is kept at -170* or something like that) I'd not keep them. I know Karen has done a remarkable job with hers, but I don't want to do that. I'd quit, let them all die out, and eventually, get guineas or some other less susceptible species. They say Egyptian Fayoumis are highly resistant to Marek's, which is interesting. Flighty, yes, but very hardy.

 

[1muttsfan]

Unfortunately they also lay very few eggs.

I guess I consider it more like the way we vaccinate other animals, for example if dogs were not vaccinated for parvo virus even adult dogs would commonly die from the disease, as it is highly contagious and has a high death rate associated with it.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Tomorrow Dh, and I will be going to get the hardware for my coop doors, the pvc, the spigots, shut off valves, electrical wiring, breaker boxes, and outlets.  While there is still a good bit of work to be done to finish it all up, it won't be too much longer, and I can bring my flock home. 

Went to the oncologist.  The news is not good, but could be worse.  I will probably be starting chemo in about 3 weeks.

I have gone through chemo, I'm so sorry, I wouldn't wish it on anyone, unfortunately if you want to live it is the price that has to be paid. You will be in my thoughts.

 

[holm25]

Getaclue I wish you best of luck with your chemo.

 

[speckledhen]

Unfortunately they also lay very few eggs.

I guess I consider it more like the way we vaccinate other animals, for example if dogs were not vaccinated for parvo virus even adult dogs would commonly die from the disease, as it is highly contagious and has a high death rate associated with it.

But, Mary, parvo doesn't make a dog a carrier if he recovers, as far as I know, so it's a bit different than Marek's. I had a dog with parvo, puppy adopted from the shelter. He was so sick, they rushed him back to the vet and we saved him, but he would not have shed the virus after he recovered from his bout of it.

I just know it would ruin my enjoyment of the hobby if I had an entire flock carrying Marek's. Everyone has to make their choice. Some folks can do it, but I'd rather they die out and just not start over again. It's another reason I don't want hatchery birds-they can say they are vaccinated, maybe they are and maybe they are not, but how am I to know if it's true one way or the other? Since I never have chicks mailed to me, I used to get them at the local feed store who bought from either Ideal or Mt. Healthy. The other one gets theirs from Privett. I don't want mine vaccinated and if I get feed store chicks, I don't know if they are. Only one feed store has been able to tell me that their chicks were supposedly vaccinated at the hatchery. The others, including TSC, were clueless.


Cheryl and Lisa, I have very negative feelings about chemo, at least for myself. I decided I'd never have it, if it came to the question one day. I can't believe they don't have other alternatives. In fact, I believe with all my heart that they do and are holding them back. If they are causing that suffering to make a buck, I hope they are forced to answer for it some day. Hoping for the best for you, Cheryl. I'm sure you are taking enjoyment from your chickens and your new coop to offset all that stuff. My birds some days get me through bad stuff. As they say, go hug a chicken and feel better.

 

[1muttsfan]

Actually dogs that survive parvo can become reinfected later in life and shed virus, even if they do not become ill themselves, as can vaccinated dogs. Like many live virus vaccines it protects from clinical disease, but not infection, and vaccinated individuals can be infected and shed virus, exposing others. The likelihood is less with vaccinated individuals, but still possible.

BTW Rabies is a different kind of vaccine and stimulates protection without viral shedding.

 

[speckledhen]

Actually dogs that survive parvo can become reinfected later in life and shed virus, even if they do not become ill themselves, as can vaccinated dogs. Like many live virus vaccines it protects from clinical disease, but not infection, and vaccinated individuals can be infected and shed virus, exposing others. The likelihood is less with vaccinated individuals, but still possible.

BTW Rabies is a different kind of vaccine and stimulates protection without viral shedding.

Thanks for clearing that up. I really had not heard that. With dogs, at least, they usually stay with one owner all their lives. With chickens, it's much different (except for softies like me). But, roaming dogs can spread whatever is spreadable, of course.

Some dog was in my pasture Jan 28. Not sure but the upright, long curved tail on this one looks like it could be the brindle one, though the pic is not great. I washed the SD card accidentally so I'm lucky I got anything on it.

I just don't understand-how can you not know where your dog is at 3 a.m.??? Not caring is how.

 

[Wyatt0224]

Are you sure it's a dog and not a coyote?

 

[speckledhen]

Are you sure it's a dog and not a coyote?

Well, the tail being up and curled that way seem to say dog, but at first glance, I did think it was a coyote. The picture is not really great for figuring that out. Seems to me the head is not broad like the other brindle dog that was here in October, but that area of the photo is too blurry and the glare from the eyes throws it off.

The tail reminds me of this other dog:

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Could be a chupacabra.