The Evolution of Atlas: A Breeding (and Chat) Thread

[Leahs Mom]

While there is some evidence of good, there are also lots of questions.

 

[Leahs Mom]

If you go to google scholar and search fermented feed in chicks, there are a lot of studies posted there. You can also see articles on acidification of feed as well. (For example: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378113504000136 )

https://academic.oup.com/ps/article/82/4/603/1502600/Fermented-liquid-feed-reduces-susceptibility-of



The problem, as I see it, is that if not done correctly, you also have a possibility for mold-related diseases. Corn, which is a major conventional feed ingredient, is notorious for carrying mycotoxin producing spores - even when fed dry.

There are so many potential issues for folks that are taking poor advice in methods that I'd highly recommend sprouting instead.

Only problem with sprouting is that most the folks that want to ferment want to purchase the cheapest feed and nothing more. So if they don't get whole grains in the first place, sprouting is an added expense.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I found it humorous that some are fermenting fancy organic feeds at 30 dollars a bags. Yikes, that's expensive here. Mine runs around 13-14 dollars for 50 pounds. No wonder they can't afford to feed it straight. I of course live in a state where people still farm, so product is reasonably priced here.

 

[speckledhen]

I found it humorous that some are fermenting fancy organic feeds at 30 dollars a bags. Yikes, that's expensive here. Mine runs around 13-14 dollars for 50 pounds. No wonder they can't afford to feed it straight. I of course live in a state where people still farm, so product is reasonably priced here.

That $30 is cheaper than some are spending, Lisa! Some were spending 40-50 bucks. No way I'd do that. I pay about $11-12 for my layer feed, even the 22% Super Layer. If they want organic, they need to let the birds free range on land that has not been contaminated with weed killers and such. That may not suit the "organic police", but it's organic enough. No pesticides and no fertilizers other than the chicken poop, so I'd say that's organic. They had a bag of non-GMO corn at the co-op the other day for $10 for 50#, not bad. Should have gotten it because the grain mix that week was a little scanty on the corn part, not very common to have that happen.

The non-GMO feeds that are cheap don't even have corn, just wheat and fish meal and not good fish meal, as far as I can tell. That type feed supposedly encourages necrotic enteritis. So, natural and organic is what is growing "out there", IMO. Yes, we have to watch for predators if we let them out to wander some, but so far, so good. Our roosters have been the best warning system.

I tackled some chicken myths in my latest video. I had to keep it under 15 minutes or I could have gone into more detail about some of them and added a few more, but you realize how many chicken and egg myths there are? Hundreds, maybe even THOUSANDS! I even touched on the dreaded breed myth that Ameraucanas/ Araucanas /Easter Eggers are all the same. EEEK! I may have to do an entire video on that alone, but I put pics of Gypsy, Snow, June, Riley and Gypsy and Riley's mother, Charlotte, at the end. I could have put up Panda because Charlotte is her mother, too, but I was running out of time. So, I got Ameraucanas and EEs in there, all properly labeled on the photos. At one part, the wind really kicked up but I think only a few words were muffled.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

There sure is some crazy ideas out there. Great video as always. Chickens are more complex than people give them credit for. You can only really see it once you understand chicken language. They are amazing creatures.

Love the crowing in the background.

Don't know why breed identification is so hard for folks, or the ability to believe the hatchery sold them what are basically mixed breeds under a purebred name.

Heard a young coyote whooping it up right outside our house last night. Hopefully the donkeys keep doing their job to keep it away. My husband shot into the air to startle it off.

My chickens are barely eating anything lately due to all the seeds, weeds and bugs. It's crazy how much they can feed themselves on range. Hopefully the young Coyotes keep on moving on to someone else's birds.

 

[speckledhen]

There sure is some crazy ideas out there. Great video as always. Chickens are more complex than people give them credit for. You can only really see it once you understand chicken language. They are amazing creatures.

Love the crowing in the background.

Don't know why breed identification is so hard for folks, or the ability to believe the hatchery sold them what are basically mixed breeds under a purebred name.

Heard a young coyote whooping it up right outside our house last night. Hopefully the donkeys keep doing their job to keep it away. My husband shot into the air to startle it off.

My chickens are barely eating anything lately due to all the seeds, weeds and bugs. It's crazy how much they can feed themselves on range. Hopefully the young Coyotes keep on moving on to someone else's birds.

Haha, I'll have to listen to it to hear who was crowing! It barely registers anymore.

Coyotes are crazy between Ladyhawk and her neighbor. He said his wife got up three times to shoot at them during the night and two of his cats that refuse to stay in his shop came slinking up to the house and were locked inside. They are apparently really bad this year already.

 

[1muttsfan]

The Veterinary Microbiology article actually says acidified feeds are not significantly better at preventing infections -
"...chickens fed acidified feed were less susceptible to an infection with Campylobacter than were chickens fed conventional feed. The size of reduction was however limited. The susceptibility for Salmonella colonisation was not affected by acidified feed. It is concluded that the role for acidified feed in the control of Campylobacter and Salmonella is limited.

The Poultry Science article is from a year earlier - 2003. I would think that if fermenting feed was practical in chicken operations that by now, 14 years later, it would be in use. It was very specific about how the feed was fermented - not what you would expect from average backyard folks.

 

[getaclue]

1mutts, Exactly! Everyone read the part where it improves this, or that, but didn't read the part where it says the improvements are marginal at best. It's definitely not worth the risk, nor is it worth the extra work.

 

[getaclue]

I've been trying to help some of the people on some of the threads, with the things I can, and have knowledge about, when they post for help. There are at least 2 people that frustrate me. One of them only gives advice using natural, holistic, or home remedy type things.

Do not misunderstand what I'm saying. I agree that a few of them work. Most don't, and have been debunked, but there is a lot of money being made by perpetuating these myths in the vitamin, and health food industry. Claims of "research shows", "scientific studies show", but when you want to see the research, or scientific studies, far too often they are either nonexistent, or do not back up the claims being made. Awhile back, everyone jumped on the glucosamine bandwagon. It was the end-all of treatments for joint pain. That has since been debunked.

Oregano oil is one of the latest fads. I'm not saying that oregano oil is not beneficial. What I'm saying is, that the claims of it's antibiotic properties being as good as any of the prescribed antibiotics, are simply not true. Oregano oil supposedly cures everything from athletes foot, to cancer, to warts, and everything in between. Really? So Italians never get sick? Again, I'm not saying it does not have some properties, that help boost the immune system, but it falls way short of providing total immunity against all things, and being a total replacement for prescribed antibiotics. Heck, I sprinkle oregano in my coops, and runs at times, especially when it's been wet out for a considerable time. I know it repels flies, makes the chicken area smell good, and may benefit the chickens some if they eat it. I don't use it, or expect it to cure anything, and it doesn't.

Turmeric is another cure all. Apparently, India is disease, and cancer free.

Without good evidence that these things do what they claim, it's foolish to think they will work on chickens, and discard all time tested remedies to the wind.

 

[speckledhen]

Got this reply on my FF and want to know how to answer this woman in regard to grains "fermented" in the air. Sounds like sprouting to me, not fermenting:

Can you tell us how this lady fermented her feed? Most people only ferment (soak) the feed for 2-3 days, depending on temperature, to only achieve a very mild ferment. Some people will keep a ferment going in a container for a long time and just keep adding grains and taking some out. That sounds like extreme fermenting and perhaps dangerous. It might be helpful if you knew just how she did it to that achieved the dangerous fermented feed. I only plan to ferment whole grains, and you keep is soaking in water above the grain with you grains exposed to the air, therefore it cannot mold. If she fermented mash (some people do) and put it out for them and they didn't finish it all, the leftover could definitely mold. So it depends on her method of feeding it out, too. Thank you.