The permie forum....haven't been there in a long while. Those folks are really odd ducks...city folks very convinced they know everything there is to know about farming and they are doing it better. They spend loads and loads of money on very lush landscapes that yield a few baskets of food...but, by golly, they are doing it like a hippy should!
Even their animal paradigms are highly impractical, expensive and produce nothing...the guy who runs that forum was showing a vid on one of the BYC sister sites about a "natural" coop for chickens and it was a very small brush pile that someone had propped up a little on one side with bricks~had about 2 ft. in height and about 2x3 ft. of space in it, total. Mind you, not one bird was living in it but he was very excited about the possibilities of this coop.
Meanwhile, his own coop is this monstrosity of expensive construction that they've dragged up on some hay bales for the winter months so the poop falls through the floor...but the chickens have nowhere to be on the floor because it's all wire. And they spend more on feed than they are getting in eggs....producing nothing of real profit or value.
City folks....pish posh.