The Front Porch Swing

[wyoDreamer]

I really like that design concept, tomtommom.

 

[Tomtommom]

@dpenning It's nice to know you are not being offended by our comments. Thank you for being so gracious.

Part of my opinion comes from where I live. All those angles would not be energy efficient for heating and cooling - hard to insulate corners like that. I also don't see what value of all those bump-out windows adds to the house. I would think it would make furniture layout difficult also. We have bay windows in every room downstairs and it has been interesting trying to figure out where to put the couches and chairs. Straightening out the exterior walls wouldn't interrupt or change any of the views.

My mom and dad got an on-demand water heater when they hooked up to natural gas and got rid of their propane tank. Not sure if they really like it or not. It doesn't seem to really save much water - they still need to run water at the kitchen sink until they get hot water. My sister and brother-in-law have one also and are not really happy with it.

Talking about water runs, our house is fairly efficient as far as layout goes - the kitchen, bathroom, utility room are all in the same area, probably about 15 feet apart for all hot water use. Guess where they installed the hot water heater - in the center of the basement. The pipe from the well actually comes into the house under the kitchen, then runs 30 feet across the basement to the water heater and then back across the basement to the sink/shower/utility room area. If the water heater was located between the kitchen sink and bathroom sink, the longest run would be 10 feet. I think we would save some money just by not having to run water for 30 feet to get hot water.

We had on demand water heaters at the restaurant chain I worked at. Every single store had issues with the blasted things

Hubby has them too in his Little Caesars store and same thing. But that may be commercial use issues. I always like the idea of them.

 

[dpenning]

We had on demand water heaters at the restaurant chain I worked at. Every single store had issues with the blasted things Hubby has them too in his Little Caesars store and same thing. But that may be commercial use issues. I always like the idea of them.

My mom had one when she lived in Hong Kong and she loved it but it was a tiny flat. She and this builder are the only two people I've ever herd sy anything positive. I'm going to bea tough sell for that!

 

[perchie.girl]

North Texas, hot in summer, can get cold in the winter but it typically only lasts a week. The thing I don't like about the mobile home is hearing every footstep and feeling it move in strong wind. I doubt a house would feel the same as a trailer but it will be very interesting to walk through one or two. My moms home is pier and beam but it is 50 years old. I also will ask the architect about it.

My first place was a mobile home. you get used to it and can tell when someone is moving about in the livingroom when you are in the bedroom... Or even the cats messin around.

What I did like alot was they are incredibly efficient in layout. Mine was a two bed two bath with a laundry area... Huge kitchen decent dining room and huge huge living room... It was bigger space wise than my three bed one bath home I bought afterwards.

It was a double wide 24 by fifty or something like that...

deb

 

[perchie.girl]

Quote:
Sounds like a Yurt.

deb

 

[wyoDreamer]

Now that I think of it, a friend had one installed in his workshop - it was right under the sink where he used the hot water. It worked great in that situation.

Edited to say - Speaking of on-demand instant hot water systems.

 

[perchie.girl]

Quote:
NOTHING like a Yurt.... Lol I think the Circle thing threw me... I liked the first one alot.

deb

 

[lazy gardener]

regarding septic: i don't think the size of the house, or the way the plumbing is laid out will have anything to do with the septic. Field size will probably be determined by number of bathrooms, and what ever else code specifies, along with environmental issues: slope, soil structure, drainage, that type of stuff. But once the plumbing exits the house, the amount of linear feet inside the house should be inconsequential. dpenning: Enjoy this time to build your dream home.

 

[Tomtommom]

NOTHING like a Yurt.... Lol I think the Circle thing threw me... I liked the first one alot.

deb

I like the central living area with the all round fireplace. I would spend so much time there haha

 

[bruceha2000]

I had a nice long response with individual quotes to respond to everything and POOF, it is gone!

Anyway, Yes, the angles will add expense but this is the last house we will live in and we will be there, God willing, for many years to come. In a number of areas we have opted for design that we are getting from the architect.

BR 2 is the primary guest room, mostly just my mom stays there, we don't want it to be too comfortable. LOL! BR 3 is the dogs bedroom, there will be a sectional and some beds and crates, with a doggie door in the door going out to the dog yard. Mom won't have to share her bathroom. If need be we can also use the second story as a guest room. I fully expect there to be at least two water heaters. One of the builders we met with today is big into the instant on demand water heaters. My only experience is in the double wide and that one was not working well so the jury is out on that.

We have a 5 acre pond that is the focal point of the property, that is why we are long and low maximizing the view with large picture windows. We have spent the last two years renovating the pond and it just filled up this last week! We are thrilled. Your art gallery comment did make me laugh though, we have many more walls in our current home and do have quite a bit of artwork, there may be some for sale soon, mostly wildlife images.

The back of the house where all the views are faces east. Most of the windows are covered by the porch, all the outline is under roof. We will get morning sun on the patio overlooking the pond. Someone said something about the plumbing being a problem with such a long house going to a single septic system. This is a good question and I will ask about that.

Actually all these observations are fantastic and I thank you all. Some things we have made decisions on for one reason or another but in some cases it could be something we don't know we don't know. I really appreciate the input so don't stop critiquing.

We have had one builder suggest pier and beam because there is a slight slope depending on where we choose to build. We need to have the other builder out to the property, they suggest foundation with piers at every corner (ouch) and wherever else the engineers say they need to go. Pretty much under the whole foundation. Once we choose the site for the house they will come out and drill core samples for the engineering report. I've always lived in slab houses so we are going to walk through one of the homes that has pier and beam that was built last year.

If I missed someone's comments, sorry. Quoting is too much of a challenge for me. LOL

OK I am assuming that since you live in Texas frost depth is not really an issue. Pier and beam would be KINDA similar to a post and beam house where the only areas that REALLY need to be supported is under the posts themselves. Not sure how that translates to a stick built frame though since every stud is a small post. But if the beams (in this case the sills) are big enough, and I suspect you would be talking post and beam sized sill beams, basically about a foot square, they should be up to the task if the piers are spaced appropriately.

Still, a bit different than post and beam where every post is at least 8x10 and spaced about 12' apart. In a post and beam house the exterior walls are NOT load bearing, the rafters come down to a top plate (again 8x10 or larger) that sits on the posts and carries the roof load to them. The sills really have no use other than to hold the posts in line and give you something to nail the sheathing boards to. So yeah, check carefully with the engineering people on that.

Since the sills have to be off the ground, what do they use in a pier and beam design to fill in the space between the piers? I am assuming you will need some sort of crawl space that won't freeze to run the plumbing pipes in.

@dpenning It's nice to know you are not being offended by our comments. Thank you for being so gracious.

Part of my opinion comes from where I live. All those angles would not be energy efficient for heating and cooling - hard to insulate corners like that. I also don't see what value of all those bump-out windows adds to the house. I would think it would make furniture layout difficult also. We have bay windows in every room downstairs and it has been interesting trying to figure out where to put the couches and chairs. Straightening out the exterior walls wouldn't interrupt or change any of the views.

My mom and dad got an on-demand water heater when they hooked up to natural gas and got rid of their propane tank. Not sure if they really like it or not. It doesn't seem to really save much water - they still need to run water at the kitchen sink until they get hot water. My sister and brother-in-law have one also and are not really happy with it.

Talking about water runs, our house is fairly efficient as far as layout goes - the kitchen, bathroom, utility room are all in the same area, probably about 15 feet apart for all hot water use. Guess where they installed the hot water heater - in the center of the basement. The pipe from the well actually comes into the house under the kitchen, then runs 30 feet across the basement to the water heater and then back across the basement to the sink/shower/utility room area. If the water heater was located between the kitchen sink and bathroom sink, the longest run would be 10 feet. I think we would save some money just by not having to run water for 30 feet to get hot water.

Is it gas or propane? If so, that might be why it is located where it is, maybe they couldn't vent it closer to where the water is used. If it is electric, just move it! PEX is the big thing in plumbing now and they make push fittings to connect PEX tubing to PEX and also PEX to copper. Don't need special tools, no soldering copper pipe. Move the tank, cut the pipe and reconnect with PEX fittings (Shark bite is one brand name).

re: on demand water heaters. We put one in this old (half now mostly new) P&B house when we rebuilt the north building because I had heard they were more efficient than keeping gallons and gallons of water hot all the time. I had considered point of use water heaters but the well water is maybe 45F so the temp rise would have required a HUGE BTU POU heater everywhere I put them. The OD heater had to be put in the basement of the original house because there wasn't enough height in the crawl space under the rebuilt building where ALL plumbing other than the washing machine are located. I would have preferred it to be located between the kitchen sink on the south wall of the south bent (*) and the bathrooms in the middle bent. The bedrooms are in the north bent. The venting for the OD heater is bigger than that for the furnace (which is in the crawl space, right by where the pipes exit the foundation wall) because they ran it back through the crawl space to get away from "under deck" space. gas/propane units can not vent under decks.

I don't think it works right and I am NOT happy with it. It is SUPPOSED to kick on within 3 seconds of sensing a 1/2 gallon per minute water flow rate. Total distance from the water heater to the kitchen sink is maybe 15' including all the way to the business end of the pull out faucet. It takes about a minute to get hot water there even though by water volume, it should take no more than 15 seconds. It is about 25' to the downstairs bath, another 18' to the hand held shower head. ~33' to the upstairs bath sink and probably 45' to the hand held shower in the upstairs bath. It takes a good 2 full minutes to get hot water to the downstairs bathroom shower. As I said above, LOTS of wasted water when you just need a little though that would be true of any system where the tank is not near the point of use.

And then there is the "on demand" part.

As I said, it needs a flow rate of 1/2 gallon/minute to kick on so EVERY time you turn the water off, that restarts. Even if working properly, there will be a 3 second flow of unheated water coming out of the heater every time you turn the water on. I shave the razor and shaving cream way and it pains me TERRIBLY to let water (or any resource) run when it isn't being used. So after the water is hot, I turn it on only to rinse the razor. Effectively I am using the hot water that is in the pipe because it isn't kicking on the water heater. Next I take a shower. There is still some hot water in the pipe close to the bathroom but the water behind that is not heated so you get in, it is hot, then it ISN'T hot until the unheated water is cleared from the line. So, AGAIN, you run the water for 2 minutes to get it hot before getting in the shower

I think this is a problem with OD systems in general now that we have really efficient washers and dishwashers. Our HE washer spits in a little water, tumbles the clothes around, spits in some more water, etc. How often does it ever run 1/2 gallon a minute for very long?

I solved this problem by installing a 110V 12 gallon water heater (that I already had) RIGHT under the kitchen sink. Total distance from the tank to the end of the faucet - 7'. It is still ~15' to the bathroom sink but again, hot water in a fraction of the time. If I use a little water, not enough to get the propane on demand heater going, it will eventually cause the electric water heater to do its thing and that is probably the case most any time I shave or do a few dishes. But it you take a shower with the long constant flow, the on demand heater will replace the water in the electric heater with HOT water and this is where you want that OD water heater - you can have 100 people take consecutive showers and never run out of hot water.

They do make hybrid systems that are pretty much what I have created but all in one unit. But you still have the problem of the distance from the water heater to the point of use.

(*) Bent - the term in post and beam buildings for each section made up of the posts on that section's "corners". A 3 bent building will have 8 posts. 4 corner posts and 2 in line on each long wall. Post to post on the long wall (the one with the top plates) defines a bent.

Now that I think of it, a friend had one installed in his workshop - it was right under the sink where he used the hot water. It worked great in that situation.

Edited to say - Speaking of on-demand instant hot water systems.

I suspect that is a Point Of Use system rather than On Demand. Fine line of distinction since most are tankless (though some have small .5 or 1 gallon tanks) but OD tends to be "whole house" and "POU" is AT the place you use the water so there is no water wasted. I think California and other drought stricken areas should be using POU water heaters.

My Dad has an "insta hot" faucet at his kitchen sink, separate from the kitchen faucet. That is a POU unit with a 1 quart tank IIRC, you could probably make tea with it right out of the faucet.

POU systems are really common in Europe. I think POU units in every room that uses water would work really well combined with a solar water heater system. The tank of solar heated water would be warm enough (if not sometimes hot enough with no extra boost) to allow really small BTU electric POU units. Combine that with some solar panels and (disregarding the capital costs of course) your hot water is free.

regarding septic: i don't think the size of the house, or the way the plumbing is laid out will have anything to do with the septic. Field size will probably be determined by number of bathrooms, and what ever else code specifies, along with environmental issues: slope, soil structure, drainage, that type of stuff. But once the plumbing exits the house, the amount of linear feet inside the house should be inconsequential. dpenning: Enjoy this time to build your dream home.

Only in regard to getting the stuff out of the house and into the septic system. It can all be joined under the house if there is vertical room - 1/4" drop per foot of run is minimum for 3" and smaller pipe. So in DPenning's design, all the various sinks, toilets, showers/tubs would have to be joined before hitting a common drain pipe out to the septic system. I'm just seeing a LOT of pipe run with bathrooms at both ends of a 120' long house. Not that it can't be done, but someone needs to figure out how it will all connect BEFORE the plumbers start gluing up pipe. The straighter the run and the fewer bends, the better for flow of stuff you WANT to flow really well

I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't want all those pipe connections buried in the ground under the house. Bear of a problem if you ever need to deal with it later and you REALLY must have a clean out plug on the pipe that goes out to the septic tank. How do you put that in if it is below grade??