The Great Hatchery/Breeder Divide

Have you ever thought about if you were God and could breed humans the way you want them? What males and females would you put into a breeding pen together? Ok, this isn't who you wanna see in your own porno, its who in humanity represents the qualities you most would like to see in future generations?

For me it would be Sean Connery as top male breeder. My main momma would be Jodi Foster. Both have shown fantastic longevity, in their careers and physically. Sean, while not the extreme in buffness, has managed to remain a top pick from women in sexiness, and while Jodi may not, her intelligence, career, and classic curves outweigh the fads of modern body types. For a women in her mid 40's, she still is a beautiful woman, and when a mike is shoved to her to weigh in on current issues, she answers with well thought out, reasoned arguments, not modern drivel that is passed off as intelligence.

Would you choose the same two? Probably not.

The point is, BUYER BEWARE.

If you want general birds for your backyard, hatcheries are the way to go, usually, unless you are looking for an odd breed that most hatcheries don't deal with. That's a generalization. Some breeds from hatcheries do exhibit the basic SOP, while others do not. The Rhode Island Red is a perfect example of one that rarely does. The production reds were bred as laying machines, not the dual purpose workhorses of past generations. Heritage, or purebred RIRs should go broody on occasion, make a good meat bird, and should lay a 3-4 eggs a week. Production reds can easily average 5 eggs a week during the middle of summer, and 6-7 eggs a week during spring and fall. On this, I speak from experience. Out of 23 hens split between a friend and I, none had gone broody in over a year. The odds are 1 might in 3 years... That's great if you just want eggs and don't want to deal with broodiness, but if you want a self sufficient flock that will raise its own young, its horrible.

Also of note, Heritage RIR roosters should have a very deep reddish mahogany coloration. I have seen a few of our birds with a few splashes of it, but none have much of it. Some breeds are easier to maintain such distinct colors, while others are not. To me, that's part of what I wanted in my birds, that beautiful reddish color. Not to sound like I'm railing against the hatcheries, cause I'm not. I'm simply making the point that we are all responsible for the choices we make.

When dealing with breeders, DO NOT DEAL WITH BREEDERS THAT WON'T TOLERATE YOU ASKING A FEW QUESTIONS. Now anybody might get annoyed if you demand that out of 6 eggs 1 is guaranteed to be the next Grand Champion. It doesn't work that way. But if asking simple, reasonable questions turns them off, especially about what traits they breed heaviest for, then move on. Order hatching eggs from a reputable breeder. Its still a likelihood that if 10 hatch, 1 might be a good bet as a future breeder. It doesn't mean they can't all be bred, just that only a few will exhibit ALL of the characteristics within the SOP. Its good to have folks around that still practice good husbandry, and a shame that more don't get into it. As a breeder, you decide what traits you want in your birds. You decide if a yard full of mutts is the most beautiful thing ever. Someone else may want some of your mutts, great. As long as they know they are mutts, great. I have 2 brooders with a total of 33 chicks right now. They are mutts. The daddy was a very imperfect, crossed up Marans with beautiful coppery orange plumage and the mommas were my production red hens. After losing the original flock, this is all I have left of them. Yes, these chicks are all mixed up, from white to black, with chipmunk and cinnamon mixed in.

My new flock is being built around the Copper Marans genotype (I think I used the right term.) I have a Copper Blue rooster and a Copper Black hen, and a pair of Blue Cochins LF. Maybe I will do some breeding for extra cash eventually. I can tell you where they all came from, too. My Marans are based off of Whitmore Farms line, bred by West Knoll Farms, whom I purchased them from. The Cochins are from a Rarest of the Rare Assortment from McMurray Hatchery. Any I breed for sale next year, even hatching eggs, will go with what I know of their lineage and how I select for breeding. Most likely, I will select Marans predominately for color and meat qualities in roosters and egg and plumage in hens.

Buyer Beware

Ken
 
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I don't exactly know how to say this, I get your point about different hatcheries, and it does make sense to me. But the flaw in reasoning (if it is that) isn't exactly MINE. I didn't decide that hatcheries were good or bad. I don't think anyone has ever said to me,( except you...?) "Well, it depends on which hatchery..." The general response that OP people give me is that "hatcheries are better/worse" "breeders are better/worse." I was just trying to see if anyone had any ACTUAL experience to back up the claims, ie I have 12 hatchery of this breed and twelve breeder stock of this breed and one did x and the other did y.
 
I've had chickens from both hatcheries and chickens from good breeders over the years.

There is no comparison between the same breeds that came from a hatchery and those that came from the breeders.

The ones from the hatchery were not even close to the APA standard for the breeds. There was nothing wrong with those birds they laid many good eggs, but they were about as far from show quality and the standard as they could get.
 
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I agree, I try to stay off threads like this -- always goes the wrong way...

I also agree with Katy, big difference in some breeds in the "breeder vs hatchery" saga.
Mitch
 
Are all hatcheries that way? I am with the OP on this...

My years spent breeding other animals/plants have taught me that a breeder's stock is only as good as the integrity and eye for quality of the breeder. Some are "barn blind", i.e., every animal they have looks beautiful to them, even if it have major structural flaws. I cannot believe that all poultry breeders are immune to this.

I would expect large, highly commercial hatcheries to have lower quality stock, much as you wouldn't go to a discount store for a quality, 100% wool blanket. But not all hatcheries are big. Holderread's, for example, had stock that I was really happy with, and it was quite different from the same breeds that I saw which came from big hatcheries. That said, I haven't shown birds before. .....
 
I have entered many debates on Hatcheries vs Breeders and most who know me know the side I take. WTS let me throw this out there, We often speak of the quality difference in the two sources, but we need to take into account that when a former hatchery Loyalist decides to make the jump to a better quality bird, they have no idea what to actually look for (that's why they bought Hatchery birds to begin with) and then assume that there is no difference between the two. Hence all of the 70 bazillion threads created that say, what breed or gender is this bird I got from so & so hatchery, it's tireing.
 
I'll just chime in and say,


When I mean hatcheries I mean the big fellas that nearly everyone relates to and goes to, like Cackle, Ideal, McMurray, Meyer, Welp, Mt. Healthy, etc.


Sure there's Holderreads, Duane Urch, John Blehm, - They can be considered hatcheries but when I say hatchery I surely don't mean them. I mean businesses holding huge selections of breeds and colors, commonly known to ship chicks to feedstores, and especially, ones who can't tell the difference between EE and Ameraucana.
wink.png
 
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I thought most of the "What breed/gender is this" questions are because people get straight run, grab bags of whatever assortment the hatchery has on hand at the time. They didn't order specific breeds and were given no documentation about what breeds they were given. Also some of it must have to do with being a newby like myself and not KNOWING what a specific bird looks like at a certain age. Also some get mutts from backyard breeders. I never got the impression that hatcheries were sending out masses of frankenchickens that were so unrecognizable if a specific breed and sex were requested.
 
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I thought most of the "What breed/gender is this" questions are because people get straight run, grab bags of whatever assortment the hatchery has on hand at the time. They didn't order specific breeds and were given no documentation about what breeds they were given. Also some of it must have to do with being a newby like myself and not KNOWING what a specific bird looks like at a certain age. Also some get mutts from backyard breeders. I never got the impression that hatcheries were sending out masses of frankenchickens that were so unrecognizable if a specific breed and sex were requested.

Back when I used to order from hatcheries I ordered specific breeds.....not grab bags. Most I didn't have a problem identifying what breed it was supposed to be, but they were all a far cry from anything resembling the APA standard for that breed. As an example the RIRs were nothing like the breeder birds I had and the SLWs were even farther from the standard.
 
[[[.......Have you ever thought about if you were God and could breed humans the way you want them?....]]]]

Actually, you've spelled that incorrectly. The correct spelling is N-A-Z-I.

You're welcome.
 

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