The Great Winter Coop Humidity/Ventilation Experiment! Post Your Results Here!

[mobius]

Holy Cow @Beekissed thanks for sharing and those AMAZING results from deep litter heating!

So now we have the Chicken Engine and the Deep Litter Engine! And your coop stays warmer even with chickens not in it as a result...

 

[MollySunshine]

Holy Cow @Beekissed thanks for sharing and those AMAZING results from deep litter heating!

So now we have the Chicken Engine and the Deep Litter Engine! And your coop stays warmer even with chickens not in it as a result...

The one thing we can always count on is Beekissed being thorough and precise

The humidity levels in both coops this morning were hovering ~50% and temp. was mid 30's.

Beekissed raised a great concern of mine of late. I noticed during that cold snap that the bottom layer of my deep litter froze somewhat. My coop sits on a trailer and when I winterized the coop I neglected to bring the plastic to ground level. Instead I cut it level with the coop. In hindsight this was a mistake. The wind is able to move underneath the coop causing the floor to get cold. I need to make this adjustment. It's always something! And I'm afraid the weather will not co operate this weekend. This first year is full of learning experiences. It's taken all I can do to incorporate this deep litter method with a hard floor and this rookie mistake doesn't help any.

 

[aart]

I think that's a good idea. Seems I have more trouble with frost bite issues~if I have them at all~at those temps rather than subzero temps, due to the excess moisture that is already in the air both outside and in at those temps, particularly after a snow or rain.

Here's my own kind of report, though not exactly on humidity, as I don't measure that...would be interesting if I did. It's warmer than normal here right now, so will repeat these measurements when we get some sustained cold temps in the single digits or below zero to see just how much the DL cooks at those temps.

Nice!! Love to see a good 'compost heat'!
That DL pack is about, what, a foot deep?
Sure wish you would measure humidity, would be a fascinating addition to this thread.
Looking forward to seeing you continue to document these temps over the winter,
especially if it gets really cold. Our ground up here isn't hardly frozen yet.

 

[Beekissed]

Nice!! Love to see a good 'compost heat'!
That DL pack is about, what, a foot deep?
Sure wish you would measure humidity, would be a fascinating addition to this thread.
Looking forward to seeing you continue to document these temps over the winter,
especially if it gets really cold. Our ground up here isn't hardly frozen yet.

The most shallow depth on that is a foot...the deepest portion is around 2.5-3 ft. I'll be interested to see what happens in subzero too.

 

[Howard E]

Interesting find on the deep litter. I would not have expected that level of heat from deep litter. But then there is deep litter (4 to 6 inches) and then there is deep litter......12 inches plus. Once you get to a depth of 12 inches plus, composting may be taking place (vs. a slow rot), which very well have the ability to generate that level of heat. So if the moisture it creates can be dealt with, that may be another option for cold weather heat.....at least enough to raise the temps inside a few degrees to help dry the house out.

Now that Mobius has established a baseline, would be interesting to see some test changes. Things like closing the coop up tight.......really tight.......just to see what happens to the heat and humidity levels. Another is to test temps and humidity levels up high, mid level (roost level) and low at the floor.....all three at the same time.

Also, if it has ever been discussed, I may have missed it, but curious what is the coop layout being tested, along with how the ventilation systems, windows, etc. are oriented and how they work.

 

[ckelley]

Side note: if someone finds a hygrometer they like, that once calibrated seems to be accurate, works outside at low sub-zero temperatures, etc., could they report back?

Everything out there seems to be so cheaply made. So often they don't work.

Heck, I'd like to know people's thoughts on thermometers too. Got one that seems to work now. First one I ordered off of amazon would never measure a temp below 27 degrees.

I realize there's another thread on what weather instruments people are using, but so far it seems focused on weather stations, and less specific things like a hygrometer.

I noticed on the packaging of the thermometer I picked up I needed to use lithium batteries for colder temps for it to be accurate. I would like to know what everyone else uses as well. I have a $20 remote thermometer with a 200' range. Don't know the brand, but I will check it at lunch.

Edited- It's made by TAYLOR

 

[Beekissed]

Interesting find on the deep litter. I would not have expected that level of heat from deep litter. But then there is deep litter (4 to 6 inches) and then there is deep litter......12 inches plus. Once you get to a depth of 12 inches plus, composting may be taking place (vs. a slow rot), which very well have the ability to generate that level of heat. So if the moisture it creates can be dealt with, that may be another option for cold weather heat.....at least enough to raise the temps inside a few degrees to help dry the house out.

Now that Mobius has established a baseline, would be interesting to see some test changes. Things like closing the coop up tight.......really tight.......just to see what happens to the heat and humidity levels. Another is to test temps and humidity levels up high, mid level (roost level) and low at the floor.....all three at the same time.

Also, if it has ever been discussed, I may have missed it, but curious what is the coop layout being tested, along with how the ventilation systems, windows, etc. are oriented and how they work.

Last year my thermometer at roost height in the coop at night was showing a steady 10* warmer than outside temps when we were in subzero temperatures for several days. That's more than a few degrees and I'll take it. There's no question that I'm composting in this coop...the only difference between rotting and composting is one is decomposition without being a managed one and the other is a managed decomposition...or a managed rot. I'm managing it all year round.

I think a person will only get that level of heat in a deep litter if it IS managed and managed well, including a lot of green material and a good variety of materials, while also capping that moisture....most people are out there stirring up some wood shavings and poop in the coop and thinking it's composting DL, but it's basically deep bedding that is mixed with poop. I'm doubting those folks will feel much heat in that kind of litter, no matter how deep it gets. Most just report frozen poop and wood shavings, which was pretty much what I kept getting when I was using wood shavings and disturbing it too much.

 

[Howard E]

Yes, I agree. Dry chips and droppings by themselves are going nowhere as far as composting and generating heat are concerned, no matter how deep. To get compost heating up, it has to be managed, including the Carbon, Nitrogen, Air and Water. A fifth element is heat.

In order for composting material to generate that level (or greater) of heat, there has to be what some refer to as a "critical mass". A large enough mass of material assembled in such as way as to trap the heat the compost generates. My guess is you could take the same material you have now and spread it over 3X to 4X the surface or floor area you have now and once thinned out, the heat would go way down if not dissipate completely. That would be cold composting or "rot". Or, you could pile it up deeper to 3' or more and it would take off and get really hot. Once you get to the level where the material starts trapping the heat in, you could be at 120 to 140 or so, aka, "hot composting". Good in a compost pile, but something to be avoided inside a chicken house.

My guess is at your 12" to 24" of depth of a managed blend, you are right on the cusp of this taking off and right where you want to be. Good info!

BTW, as part of this equation, one of the stated benefits of deep litter systems in chicken houses is the ability of the litter to 'soak up" or absorb short term spikes in humidity and moisture. On days when the RH is way up there both inside and out, the deep litter gives it a place to go. It is later released when the weather changes and things start to dry out. Yet another benefit is it insulates the ground and floor beneath it, both of which continue to give up some radiant heat into the house.

 

[lazy gardener]

Bee is truly the queen of DL management in the coop. And I will say that the reason for her success is two fold: First: She has the ideal coop for DL success. Mainly having a soil floor. This allows all of the benneficials to travel freely through out that litter. This includes bacteria, fungi, and insects. Second: She is a keen observer of all cycles of nature, and uses that observation to develop husbandry methods that are based on actual experience instead of book knowledge.

I have had success with DL management in a CP hoop which had a soil floor. That coop is now too small for my current flock needs, but I still keep it available. (the 4 x 8 loft of it makes a perfect chick brooder, then they can be let into the lower 8 x 12 DL area after they are 2 - 3 weeks old.) When not brooding chicks, my adult flock run to that DL coop when ever they are allowed out to free range. Current coop is conventional stick built with vinyl over plywood floor. Have tried for last 2.5 years to get successful DL going, using the right mass, and the right ingredients, including inoculation with soil and compost from my garden, and not been successful.

 

[Howard E]

One more thing as relates to deep litter vs. compost. While they may be synergistic in some situations, that may not always be the case. In general, the purpose of the litter first and foremost is to deal with and absorb the manure, which has both a heavy nitrogen component, but also contains the moisture content that is generally associated with urine. With chickens, it all comes out together. But in a tight. closed up house in winter with a high density bird population, that can contribute to the moisture levels to the extent it contributes to frostbite in very cold weather. Deep litter helps absorb that moisture from the manure, along with the other solids in the manure.

I think the diaper analogy holds true.......purpose of litter is like that of a disposable diaper and serves the same purpose.

This is a pretty good explanation of the composting process and what it takes to get a hot composting process going:

https://deepgreenpermaculture.com/diy-instructions/hot-compost-composting-in-18-days/

When you start out with high carbon litter, such as leaves, wood chips, hay, straw, etc, and not much in the way of greens, or the Nitrogen component, the Nitrogen needed to feed the bugs that get the composting process going comes from the manure or droppings. So when you start out with fresh deep litter, you will be sorely lacking Nitrogen and moisture. Essentially, you are buying an extended wearing time for the diaper. Overnight Huggies. The deeper it gets, the more time you get. As ground moisture is added, as moisture from the manure gets added, as moisture is absorbed from condensation, etc, it all starts to come alive and will heat up, but in general, purpose of the litter is not to get a hot composting process going. Yes, it would generate some heat.......perhaps a lot of heat.......if that is your goal. But in general, I would submit that generating a lot of heat should not be your goal, as in addition to the heat, it will be giving off CO2 gas, which the birds also do......CO2 is toxic to them and must be vented, but to get a hot compost going also requires moisture be added....and that will also be added to the air......again, the same moisture we are trying to void.

The good news is that in the end of the cycle, when your deep litter is fully saturated and you are ready for a diaper change, the stuff you take out is almost like like a ready made compost firecracker ready to go off.......add some moisture, pile it deep and stand back.