The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[docdandc]

Ron,
I remember Bob saying on here quite a while back to watch for the ones that feather out the quickest and that they would be our best birds. AND I can't say how many times I've seen him and Chris 09 write on here saying records, records, records. lol
Jim
Keep up the good work.

Records, Records, Records, Yes very true. Only breed from the best in order to get the best. It is better to have many chicks from a few good ones, than a bunch from the culls.

I would bet you are not the first one with the tail lacing problem. There has to be a key to the fix thru crossing various color traits within your line. Maybe the old timers know this secret.

Look for what trait has been eliminated or weakened as well as what traits are dominant and fixed already. Breed towards the middle to stay more dominant. Look toward the extremes to see what is diluted or nearly lost. Remember, this gene thing is an "odds game". There will be some recessive traits that one of your previous breeding decisions has been able to pull toward the middle road. There will also be people who push the desired genes further away from the middle, unfortunately. If you dont keep records.....well.........good luck with that. Eventually, you will be able to see your patterns in your line and have "fixed" the problem without going further into diluting your good genes. Look for the slower progress toward the middle, AKA the 3-5yr plan. In the end you are looking for the "peas in a pod" flock, rather then the "Lone Ranger". This is where bringing another bird into your flock FROM THE SAME LINE comes in. A good way of breeding towards the middle is to mate the pullet, with the trait desired, back to the F, GF, GGF or the cockrel back to the M, GM, GGM. Try to concentrate the dominant genes.

Most importantly: ENJOY THE BREEDING JOURNEY because perfection will not all come at once.

 

[FOGELLY]

http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/e/ea/350x700px-LL-eac67bc3_tailfeathers008.jpeg

Bob, I have 3 pullets that have small amounts of lacing like this female. Over all they have good type, nice dark surface color, and good ticking in their hackles.
So are you saying that this amount is ok and can be breed out over a few years? I don't plan on making this small amount of lacing a major focus in my program at this time, just curious.

Ron

 

[Robert Blosl]

One of my males from four years ago above

This is a male from up North I dont know if you see the color in the females tails or not. This is a cross I think of two other strains.

Whats the point cut for having Red in the tail on the females

There are more important issues then leg color, horn leg color, black in the tail this lacing issue. Some people will swing the ax on a good breeder for issues that the standard calls for. The problem is its very hard to get the color in the places that the standard calls for. You just have to look at the bird and deduct a half a point here or there then hope you end up with a 94 or 95 point bird. Judges do this. I saw a judge make a New Hampshire pullet grand champion large fowl at a show in the first week in December. He said the reason he did not give the Rhode Island Red Ckl Grand Champion was his sickle main tail feather did not flow down with the rest of his tail. It stuck out a little to much. All he needed is 30 more days of growth for the tail feather to come out of his body and it would curve perfectly down with his lessor sickle and make his tail perfectly fully furnished. This happen this past weekend at the Lake City Fla. show. He was Grand Champion Large Fowl at one of the shows. It was maybe a 1/2 point deduction for this fault. No big deal one of the best males I ever saw and he is my blood line. He goes back to a old line I had a male named War Eagle. He is the same bird all over again but 20 years latter. He has a sister that looks fantastic. She and her mother have a solid green tail no red on the edges. If she did I would breed her in a heart beat.

Many new Red fanciers get hung up on little things then their type goes out the window then they got scrubs. The next thing they have is culls and they are out of Reds or going to order chicks from a old time breeder and start over again. In Red Bantams they have gone nuts over color, they have abandoned type and today we have red bantam females that have type line a Partridge Plymouth Rock. Can you be leave a Red Bantam pullet is Champion Single Comb Clean legged or even worse Champion Bantam of a show with a elevated back like a Rock or a New Hampshire Bantam pullet. That has to be at least a four point cut for the back section and tail plus Sementry. But they win and get away with it.

We need more pictures of Red Females side views so we can see the surface color and the tail side shot. I will try to take some pictures of my females and two males tomorrow to show you what I am talking about. If they are dark dark Red and the males have nice green solid tails you should be in good shape. bob

 

[melroseladi]

So what in a male would you look for to pair up with a hen with lacing on her tail feathers to try and breed that out?

Obviously most of us beginners don't have a large number of stock to just toss those females aside and we will have to breed from what we have to get our flocks established, but is breeding these birds going to make the lacing worse or even make it fixed so that it will be hard to breed out in the future?

Penny

 

[ChickMagnet207]

This female has main tail feathers that are black with a green sheen all the way to the tips. The ones before that have red tips. Is she still a good breeder?

 

[FOGELLY]

This female has main tail feathers that are black with a green sheen all the way to the tips. The ones before that have red tips. Is she still a good breeder?

She has nice color and good full tail. She has a little bit of a rounded front end, which may just be the picture. What Bob is saying is, most of us are not far enough down the road with our breeding programs to get hung up on things like this lacing issue. Work on that good brick shape, long backs, centered legs. I was bless to start with birds that have pretty good color. I picked birds to breed from that showed good type and breed weakness to strengths. For example. I have a rooster that has a long flat back and extended keel, he looks good in most aspects, but he has a hole at the top of his tail and it allows his sickles to fall through. I still like him and last January I breed him to 2 pullets and 1 hen that have very good full tails that look like a teepee from the back. None of his offspring have the same hole and I raised a cockerel from him that is in my breeding pen right now. His pullets also have great shaped tails and his very good brick shape. Look at your stock and breed for overall improvement. Experiment a little and keep records so you won't forget what you did. Ron

 

[melroseladi]

Thanks for explaining that Ron.

Penny

 

[Robert Blosl]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/393983650675714/?fref=ts#!/groups/393983650675714/photos/

Have you been to this site to see the pictures of all the dark Reds. There are some on here that have great green tails. Thats what you mate to females that have not solid greed tails.

Many times when the reds are crossed in strains these are defects that will pop up. Good green tails produce more green tails normaly.

 

[Mumsy]

I posted pictures of my Bantam RIR chicks at three weeks of age. Every couple weeks I'm taking pictures so I can train my eye to see what is desirable and that which is not.
They are now five weeks old and continue to grow in rich dark feathers. In an attempt to see the brick shape on these three chicks I've been trying something different in photo shopping the images. The outline of the chick is what it is. But now maybe I can see better what it is to look for.
I would never dream of culling a chick this young before seeing what devolpes but am I looking at the right thing in these pictures?

First chick seems to have the less desirable back.



Second chick is looking better.


Third chick looks best.

Am I correct? At five weeks they are still very young but should I still be looking for good type even now? This is not scientifically correct measuring with a ruler. I just sort of eye balled it.

 

[ChickMagnet207]

I think the first looks best