The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[Fentress]

Thanks for your post #3177, Jim. That set off a discussion that I thoroughly enjoyed! It seems to me that the breeders have done a great job preserving these blood lines. The number of homesteaders are now increasing, which opens up new opportunities for breed preservation on a large scale, maybe not show quality, but alot better than what the hatcheries have been doing. When you all cull the spring cockerels, why don't you weigh them and take pictures and then we can discuss. I will do the same, I am getting supposedly HRIR from Sand Hill Preservation Center. This could be a big help and save me a lot of time trying to figure out what type of carcass to expect from a Heritage breed. Just a thought. Too bad about the GSBR egg production. That is one sexy chicken!

 

[catdaddyfro]

Thanks for your post #3177, Jim. That set off a discussion that I thoroughly enjoyed! It seems to me that the breeders have done a great job preserving these blood lines. The number of homesteaders are now increasing, which opens up new opportunities for breed preservation on a large scale, maybe not show quality, but alot better than what the hatcheries have been doing. When you all cull the spring cockerels, why don't you weigh them and take pictures and then we can discuss. I will do the same, I am getting supposedly HRIR from Sand Hill Preservation Center. This could be a big help and save me a lot of time trying to figure out what type of carcass to expect from a Heritage breed. Just a thought. Too bad about the GSBR egg production. That is one sexy chicken!

I would venture to say the GSBR egg production is normal/or par for most heritage types it is just that most of the H RIR strains are just better at egg production( I beleive they always have even in days of yore) and these German and German/American cross NHs are even better at it still yet.

I'm glad too that Jim shed some light on that subject also. I don't have any other RIR strains to compare them to, but I will tell you I am quite impressed with my Horstman RIR girls and their egg-laying abilities so far. They lay very regular and started out laying big eggs as Ron had mentioned his reds did also, and too, the docile nature is just awesome. I did not get to handle these from day one(imprint them) they were reared to about 3/4 weeks of age by another person and then sent to me but they are so easy going and laid back its amazing. Good sized and not too shabby looking either. I don't think they would win the beauty pageants at the shows but they are for sure as good as ever, for what I wanted, good old fashioned and nice looking barnyard fowl.

Go Reds, LOL

Jeff

 

[NestingHillsSC]

Here was a test from this hatch yesterday. Not even a day old. A production red over a Delaware hen. LOL. It even has some black on its wings already. I think it is cool looking.





I have 10 Heritage Reds from Ron Fogle in the brooder right now. Getting 25 Heritage Delawares from Paul Harter next month. So when they get ready to breed going to try this with all Heritage birds. Just to see!! As Ron said, madd scientist. HAHAHAHA. Hope the color turns out just like this.But better!

 

[OffGridMAMA]

[quote name="catdaddyfro" url="/t/407294/the-heritage-rhode-island-red-site/3180#post_1077720

I'm glad too that Jim shed some light on that subject also. I don't have any other RIR strains to compare them to, but I will tell you I am quite impressed with my Horstman RIR girls and their egg-laying abilities so far. They lay very regular and started out laying big eggs as Ron had mentioned his reds did also, and too, the docile nature is just awesome. I did not get to handle these from day one(imprint them) they were reared to about 3/4 weeks of age by another person and then sent to me but they are so easy going and laid back its amazing. Good sized and not too shabby looking either. I don't think they would win the beauty pageants at the shows but they are for sure as good as ever, for what I wanted, good old fashioned and nice looking barnyard fowl.

Go Reds, LOL

Jeff
[/quote]

Thanks for commenting on your Horstman rir hens, since this is the line I have. Would love to see some pics for comparison. Mine are not for show, but still want great birds. These are the first heritage chickens I ever saw and they blew me away. Still learning all I can but am hoping to continue this line long term.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Egg production in R I Red strains can be different. How many Mohawk sub lines are there Four that originated from Illinois from Me? Maybe?

One may be better than the other as the owners have not pushed egg production one bit like I did 15 to 20 years ago. If you don't keep it up it will revert back to say 140 to 160 eggs per pullet year. I that normal? Maybe it is but you will loose feather quality if you don't push egg production and you will loose the brick shape or egg laying Capacity.

One problem new people have when they cross over from Hatchery birds to Standard Breed Birds is the level of those birds production. Production Reds are breed to lay say 275 eggs per year. They think that the H birds are going to be like these hybrid production birds. When you have Mediterranean influences pushing this high egg production in a brown egg chicken you will loose meet properties and your bird will have less flesh on it.

Still will be good meat on their bones but not as much per bird. Then you have half Cornish and half Rocks that we see in a grocery store. They can mature in no time and may weigh 6 to 8 pounds. Laying ability most of them will die before they could ever lay a egg because of the hybrid cross. So what does a beginner do?

How about getting a Don Nelson Cockerel and Cross it onto a Ideal Hatchery group of females. Then you will have some good meat birds with high egg production. Don't even get you a Standard of Perfection out to look at but you will have maybe both of the two worlds. You don't have to be part of the H movement or be a preservationist if you don't want to be. What people do who are preservationist are people who try to keep a breed going and try to live within what the breed can offer with out crossing over to the commercial feed store world to compare them. If you only get 100 eggs from these females and you want better then you got to find a breed strain or breed.

In my old line of Rhode Island Reds I had three half Florida and half Illinois pullets. When they where laying I was getting about 15 eggs a week. I hatched five chicks to play with to see what their tails will look like when they mature. That's not to bad for a H RI Red.

Some strains may lay better some may not. Some may look better and have more brick shape or more meat some may look more thin or less brick shape. Some Reds I have seen are a little short in length may only be 21 to 22 inches in length when they should be 24 inches in length and 24 inches high. Some have tapered width of back some have even width of back. Picky I am but that is what the standard calls for. The standard does not produce the ideal chicken. Its the guy or girl who carries the feed bucket. Its their eye that conforms the ideal bird.

Hope this helps you. As for taste I would think The Reese barred rocks should be very good. Frank told me he breed them that way. As for egg production I have no clue they may only lay 100 eggs per pullet year. The males tails are less than Ideal for showing they have good color but they are still a good all-around bird.

So there you have it. To get a Rhode Island Red to lay 180 to 200 eggs per pullet year will have to be breed up to do this. No book or strain will do this for you. Its the top of the very best in breeding that will do this. It will take the average person 5 years to do and most people will not do it. I used the Hogan method to do it years ago and it worked for me but only a half a percent of chicken people will do this also. Its to much work for the average person and hate to say this the average person who does not have PASION with R I Reds will be out of R I Reds in four years. This has been going on for 75 years. We call them HERE today GONE tomorrow Red Breeders.

So there you have it. Like it or not that the TRUTH. I have helped at least 100 people with my old R I Reds and only two stuck with them for over ten years. Now we have about ten who have what I call the sub strain version. Only time will tell how long they will stick with it. I pray to the GODS in RED HEVEN every night that two will make it in Ten years for the sake of the Strain. Its 100 years old and I would like to see it keep going for another 20 or so years. Well I am going to put on my warm clothes and go mow grass and put another light bulb on my chicks to keep them warm.

 

[Fred's Hens]

There is this relationship, as far as I can tell, between quick feathering and eventual egg laying ability. I've some thoughts about why this may be so, but I'll keep those thoughts to myself.

With each batch of chicks, put a band around the quick feathering birds to ID them. If you hatch out four batches and let's say two from each batch are marked as quick feathering birds, those eight birds from this season are a certain kind of bird within your flock. If egg production is as much a goal or priority of your breeding plans as saying feathering or tail or what have you, then you might would take these marked early featherers into their own pen.

You track their egg laying that pullet year and compare to the laying pen of unmarked birds. If you should find that your early feathering pullets outlayed your unmarked pullets by some 20+ egg per pullet year? You've got something empirical to base some breeding decisions upon. I would not select, personally, upon egg laying alone, but if all things being equal?

You bet I track this stuff. Always have. That's just me.

 

[immyjay54]

Quote: I only have 3 pullets/hens and 1 cockerel of the Horstman RC's. These two pics were taken in Jan so these would have been 9 months old at that time. They were hatched Apr 2012.
These are very nice birds, they have nice color, size and disposition.

 

[FOGELLY]

I have been banding my fastest feathering HRIR birds from the very first hatch. Other than the original hens, all my current breeders were banded as fast feathering. The feathering was not the main reason I retained them just part of the final assessment.

Their feather quality is MUCH better than my GSBR. The BR were hatched last July and have been letting the Roosters breed them for around 7-8 weeks. I have 4 hens and and I just moved 2 to a pen without roosters because they are already getting bare backs. They have much softer feathers than the other two.
Never had an issue with this on the Reds.
I guess I will start my GSBR breeding with the 2 pullets that still have good feathers and work on the feather quality first. The egg production should increase. I don't want give up on the GSBR and I still have some GSBR eggs coming from other breeders in the future to work with.

Plus I still need breed the worlds largest Black Sexlinks with my HRIR over GSBR!

Ron

 

[Fred's Hens]

We tagged our GSBR pullets, choosing the faster 3 featherers out of the 7 pullets. They also happened to also be the very best type and feather as well. They came into lay right at the first of the year. They are now laying 16 eggs per week. Not too shabby for a 3 pullet pen. We only hatching birds from this pullet pen.

The pen of 4 pullets is averaging only 12-13 eggs per week. We are not hatching from those.

All of them are still laying what I would call a pullet egg in size. I suspect that to increase. The Barred Rock's heritage, to us, is as both a solid bodied bird, with meat on it, but also a bird capable of laying 180-200 eggs with little difficulty. That, to us, is it's heritage. Any bird that cannot achieve either of those heritage qualities won't be around too awful long in our keeping of these fabulous birds. Looks? They got that in spades, but performance must come right along with it.

 

[catdaddyfro]

I have been banding my fastest feathering HRIR birds from the very first hatch. Other than the original hens, all my current breeders were banded as fast feathering. The feathering was not the main reason I retained them just part of the final assessment.

Their feather quality is MUCH better than my GSBR. The BR were hatched last July and have been letting the Roosters breed them for around 7-8 weeks. I have 4 hens and and I just moved 2 to a pen without roosters because they are already getting bare backs. They have much softer feathers than the other two.
Never had an issue with this on the Reds.
I guess I will start my GSBR breeding with the 2 pullets that still have good feathers and work on the feather quality first. The egg production should increase. I don't want give up on the GSBR and I still have some GSBR eggs coming from other breeders in the future to work with.

Plus I still need breed the worlds largest Black Sexlinks with my HRIR over GSBR!

Ron

I just set some of those yesterday and todays will go in there too then I will have the BR girls and the beau separated once again will get you some of those to you soon, Mr. Ron. On those BR females, I find them easy (as in too promiscuous is a nice way of putting it), some more than others, esp in their first (pullet) year, have seen this in others too, most of my Pro reds are this way the first year and too their feathers are not the desired type either.

I think it might be a combo of both there Ron softer feather structure(than the reds) and too maybe the Reds are more reserved in their actions,

LOL

Jeff