The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[immyjay54]

Me Too! Thanks Jimmy

You are all so welcome and I search the web for hours trying to find stuff out about this particular breed which is my only interest at this point and I imagine will always be. I have had many different breeds over the years, some pure and some hybrids but in the back of my mind these RIR's were always be there. I made my mind up a couple or so years ago that this was the only breed for me. I love their color, their demeanor, their size, their egg and meat quality. I don't want it to seem that I keep pushing my site, but sometimes when I read different posts on here I just think, "Gee, they must never read my site or Gosh, don't these folks know that I have that information on my web site." lol I do all I can to try and post helpful information and if folks read it, I'm glad. If they choose not to then that is okay also. I talk with lots of red breeders and if I find out juicy information I try to remember to put it on there. Like this thread, you can't read it all in 5 minutes but I'm sure there is something on there for everyone.
I'm not even going to comment on mixing this breed with anything. I for one will not do it for any reason. If anyone else wants to do it then go for it. It is your business not mine and I really don't give a hoot how long it takes to correct or what percentage of anything is in there for however long. When I start reading a post pertaining to it, it sort of makes the hair on my arms stand. You notice, I said on my arms because I don't have much on my head. Gosh if I started messing with mixing I probably wouldn't have any at all. ha,ha,ha. Good luck with your reds, all of you and enjoy your venture with them. I love, love, love these REAL RHODE ISLAND REDS.
Jim

 

[ronott1]

It was recently posted that New Hampshire is a separate breed from RIRs. They were made differently so there is a lot of different genetics involved. It would be like crossing a Red Game with a RIR. There is no relation and you would likely get Franken Chickens.

I do like Franken chickens but that would not be a good way to improve a breed. What the experts here say to do is to find someone that has the same line and then breed to that line. They are related so the 1/32 would make sense. There is no percentage of relation between a New Hampshire and a Heritage RIR line.

 

[SallyinIndiana]

Jim ~ Your pictures are great. I just went and checked out the newest ones on page 2 of the underwood line. Such wonderful chickens you have and already getting eggs too.

 

[Bluetick340]

This is the breeding practice I am familiar with in bringing in new blood: first generation will be half. Second generation, three fourths. Thired generation seven eights. Fourth generation fifteen sixteenths. If you take a fifteen sixteenths cockerel and raise it up and cross it on hens from your line you would be introducing only one thirty second new blood. Are you all saying that one thirty second of new blood will throw your breeding progress back five generations of heavy culling to correct?


Year 1 1/2
Year 2 3/4
Year3 7/8
Year 4 15/16
There is your basically five years of cleaning up any faults and culling before you turn loose a breeder bird out with the general flock. Lots of time energy and money to improve what??? Before I went down this road you better have a clear vision of what your wanting from the new blood before you lace it into tho fabric of whatever strain. Just my two cents...

 

[immyjay54]

Jim ~ Your pictures are great. I just went and checked out the newest ones on page 2 of the underwood line. Such wonderful chickens you have and already getting eggs too.

Yes SallyinIndiana, Eggs from the younger ones and already two batches of chicks from the November ones and eggs in the bator right now that go into lock down tomorrow night. I have some amazing birds from some amazing breeders and that is why I am so passionate about these.
Thanks for the comment about the pictures.

 

[Chickens Naturally]

Ok, I understand some of these statements. Its difficult, but possible, to carry on a meaningful conversation when I am not being addressed directly. However, it would be more helpful to me if what I actually asked about was addressed. I'm not advocating 'mixing' and the scenario didn't involve a separate breed. I guess I'm challenging the idea that 'new blood is never acceptable, or worth the effort, in any situation and the mention of it should be avoided'. Although I see where this position is the best for collecting accolades I'm just not so sure that alone makes it correct. No big deal and don't worry, I have no plan for mixing up chickens, lol. I'm just trying to figure out if there is merit to this position, basically because I like learning about stuff.

 

[Chickens Naturally]

This is the breeding practice I am familiar with in bringing in new blood: first generation will be half. Second generation, three fourths. Thired generation seven eights. Fourth generation fifteen sixteenths. If you take a fifteen sixteenths cockerel and raise it up and cross it on hens from your line you would be introducing only one thirty second new blood. Are you all saying that one thirty second of new blood will throw your breeding progress back five generations of heavy culling to correct?


Year 1 1/2
Year 2 3/4
Year3 7/8
Year 4 15/16
There is your basically five years of cleaning up any faults and culling before you turn loose a breeder bird out with the general flock. Lots of time energy and money to improve what??? Before I went down this road you better have a clear vision of what your wanting from the new blood before you lace it into tho fabric of whatever strain. Just my two cents...

Hi Bluetick. The 'for what' scenario was covered in my original post as well as clear vision scenarios, but again my position in not 'to advocate crossing' my question is 'Do you subscribe to the idea that new blood is never needed and never worth the effort, is a moot point'

 

[Bluetick340]

The new blood will be needed at some point with any breeding program. You just HaVe to be careful IMO opinion in any outcrossing that it is not to far of a outcross. New blood in the same strain from another source I think would be fine,however you will still have to cull. As mentiond before you better be ready for when you start crossing. To much hetrosis popping up for most to hammer back out. I think the no strain crossing is the word of wisdom to the beginners to not get to screwed up. Far out crosses results in a lot of mediocers and differences in the f2' f3, and further generations without some serious breeding and culling

 

[ronott1]

Ok, I understand some of these statements. Its difficult, but possible, to carry on a meaningful conversation when I am not being addressed directly. However, it would be more helpful to me if what I actually asked about was addressed. I'm not advocating 'mixing' and the scenario didn't involve a separate breed. I guess I'm challenging the idea that 'new blood is never acceptable, or worth the effort, in any situation and the mention of it should be avoided'. Although I see where this position is the best for collecting accolades I'm just not so sure that alone makes it correct. No big deal and don't worry, I have no plan for mixing up chickens, lol. I'm just trying to figure out if there is merit to this position, basically because I like learning about stuff.

Most of the pictures of the HRIR lines on here are already very nice and high scoring for perfection to the Standard. Mostly what is needed is to fix vigor and fertility that is caused by inbreeding and that is best accomplished by finding someone with the same line and getting chicks from them. I already have my eye on a fellow in Washington for my HRIRs from Ron Fogle.

There are other breeds (SG Dorking?) that are not as close to perfection that do need to bring in breeders from other lines but then there are faults that are caused that need to be corrected by generations of breeding. I have seen this process--I am helping a friend work on getting SG Dorkings closer to the standard of Perfection. It is a noble project but one that is not needed with HRIRs

Get some HRIR chicks from one of the Breeders on here and work within that line.

 

[SallyinIndiana]

Ok, I understand some of these statements. Its difficult, but possible, to carry on a meaningful conversation when I am not being addressed directly. However, it would be more helpful to me if what I actually asked about was addressed. I'm not advocating 'mixing' and the scenario didn't involve a separate breed. I guess I'm challenging the idea that 'new blood is never acceptable, or worth the effort, in any situation and the mention of it should be avoided'. Although I see where this position is the best for collecting accolades I'm just not so sure that alone makes it correct. No big deal and don't worry, I have no plan for mixing up chickens, lol. I'm just trying to figure out if there is merit to this position, basically because I like learning about stuff.

I feel as if no matter what words I use, I'm not expressing myself well enough to you. I'm sorry for that. By mixing I meant that where would be some amount of the old blood and some amount of the new blood in the hatched chickens.
To be clear, right now there are great breeder quality HRIR available each spring and that number is growing. Maybe there are a few months of the year when it is hard to find these great chicks, but come spring they are available.
So for me, the very short answer to your question of should new blood ever be introduced is NO. This answer is for me. You can do whatever you want with your birds, no one is going to come knocking on your door and take them away.
I have tried to explain to you the amount of work that would be generated by using new blood, but you keep coming back and imo changing the question or the definition of new blood. New blood from a different line of HRIR ~ still for me NO I'm not going to add it, mix it, or introduce it. I WILL NOT start a 5 year long process when I can get new chicks the next spring. New blood from the same breeder line as my chickens well that is not really new blood now is it. But breeders on here do spread their chickens out in the event that all of their roosters or hens get killed by something like a raccoon. Then they can replace the dead breeder chickens with a chicken or two from their line and not have to deal with starting over or a 5 year process like you are suggesting.