The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[cmom]

I just separated my juvenile offspring of the birds I got from Matt.. They are in their own coop and pen. Now to cull out what I don't want to keep. I'll try to get some pictures today. I kept 3 boys but only keeping the best 2. One is about a month older than the other 2. I will keep one of the younger ones and the older one.

 

[FOGELLY]

Sometimes when people are passionate about something it does well to have enough discernment to know when to hold ones thoughts to themselves.

Ron

 

[John farmer]

Sometimes when people are passionate about something it does well to have enough discernment to know when to hold ones thoughts to themselves.

Ron

 

[cmom]

Quote:

 

[Robert Blosl]

Its very simple to want to cross strains or even cross a white rock onto a barred rock you may have not had to raise chickens for five or ten years to clean up faults its costly time consuming and most people give up and say its not worth it. I have seen this over twenty years.

When you cross different strains such as barred rocks you do not have instant results of success. You can end up with dirty white color and we call this a coo coo color or like the Dominique. It may take five to eight years to clean up to the level of some of the top strains we have today. That could cost the person how much per year or over five years in cost.? Not a few bucks if you are razing 75 to 100 birds to get two or three cleaner ones. You can destroy the tails on the males like we have today. How long would it take in years to get the tails back to the level like the Duck Worth line has.?

On Reds you end up with pinch tails, color faults all over the place narrow backs instead of nice even wide backs. For what reason just more vigor? You can get vigor from getting a cross from a breeder in Fla and a breeder in Illinois and pay for maybe a few sins but it is the same strain for say twenty years. But vigor you will get and it will take less time to clean up any faults if any maybe a year or two. We did this with my old strain and we are set for another 20 years with out worry of loss of vigor.

In regards say take the Flanagan R I Red line. Its a good line in Texas cross a Mohawk on it and what will you have. A mess for what reason. Find a person who has Flanagan line say In Calif or North Carolina and then cross these birds if you want more fresh vigor. In the Nelson line. You cross some birds from Penn with some a lady has in Georgia in say two years . This will give you a fresh jolt of new blood from Georgia and North Carolina or even some of the birds that are say in Mass.

That's the simple way to make a cross if you think you need one. Once we find out you crosses your strains which you have the right to do we will not send beginners to your yards or recommend you to them because we know they will have a genetic night mare with the off spring. However, if you are just a notch above a backyard feed store chicken person it does not make any difference as ou are not a preservationists to a breed or want to try to keep the strains at the level they are today. That's my view on getting started with say Reds, Barred Rocks or Orps or what ever. Get the best you can afford and try to keep them at least in the ball park of what the breeder has done before you. Its is not easy for a beginner but with the help of the owner and sub strain owners it can be done.

I hope I have made myself clear. Do what you want its America. But just rember there is a right way and a wrong way and I have told you want most people have done and why they fail. You can join this Here Today Gone Tomorrow Club if you want. Its easy to be a member just do some stupid things and you will see in know time what I am talking about. KISS

 

[SallyinIndiana]

Just to put some minds at ease. I have plans to cross lines and call them Ron's Birds. But the chickens I got from Pauletta are Ron's lines and I do plan to breed them with the chickens I got from Ron. Same line no issues imo.
Then if one of my HRIR hens tuns out to be a touch under breeding quality I plan to put her in with my layer group and I plan to keep my roosters who are not in breeding pens in with my layers. Now unlike Bob I don't have a set up good enough to set eggs every 4 days. The best I can do is once a week. So there will be room in my incubators for eggs from my layer group that when they hatch I will call barnyard mixes. I will keep some of the mixed chicks and I will sell some of the mixed chicks on CL to help pay for feed. Once I got the incubating process down, it did not take me long to learn that cheap barnyard mixes sell for more than my fresh eggs.
But I really don't have plans to sell HRIR chicks anytime soon. I promised a young hen to a local person but other than that one person I want to expand my HRIR flock and the way to do that is to choose from 6-8 month old chickens, not sell off chicks. Plus with setting at most 15 eggs a week, I only plan to get about 5 females from a hatch. I want to be able to choose the best and keep the others for layers.
Now there is a good possibility that I will be getting some eggs that I can't set come March or April. I still have not decided what to with those. I don't really expect to collect enough to ship with at most 3 breeding hens. I'm thinking I will be enjoying some nice omelets.

Most importantly, if I ever mixed in a HRIR from another line foolishly forgetting all of the wise advice here, then I would have earned the right to call the line mine. I would have the 5 yrs ahead of me to start the fixing of the mixed lines too. I just don't see it happening. Now I have a few fun things in mind with my mixed flock, but I can see the time it will take to mix the mixed mutts, and those projects are just for fun in the mixed layer pen. Kind of a lets see what kind of chicken I can get. But there is no way for me to duplicate it and invent my own breed as the sires I started with were eaten by an owl and the egg layers have been re-homed. But I still can have all of mixed breeding fun I want in that layer pen.

 

[catdaddyfro]

Sometimes when people are passionate about something it does well to have enough discernment to know when to hold ones thoughts to themselves.

Ron

but but I try, I really really do

Jeff

 

[immyjay54]

WOW, it sure is a beautiful day here in Pa. The sun is shining and a nice light breeze. The chickens are all happy with the boys crowing and the girls singing their egg laying songs. I just got done talking on the phone with one of my ole southern chicken buddies. Life is good and I was so happy to be able to look in the mirror this morning and know that I was still alive, well and able to kick my leg up in the air.

 

[Chickens Naturally]

WOW, it sure is a beautiful day here in Pa. The sun is shining and a nice light breeze. The chickens are all happy with the boys crowing and the girls singing their egg laying songs. I just got done talking on the phone with one of my ole southern chicken buddies. Life is good and I was so happy to be able to look in the mirror this morning and know that I was still alive, well and able to kick my leg up in the air.

Good for you Jim. You are blessed. I am blessed too

 

[Robert Blosl]

Strain or line in my book is the same thing. For example Ron Fogerly line is Ricky Bates line. Don Nelson line is 20 years old from Rhode Island a great old line or strain. Lloyd Flanagan is out of Texas his strain or line or flock he has line breed is at least 30 maybe 40 years old. Adrian Radamaker from Minnesota is about 30 years old. Gary Underwood line is about 30 to 70 years old I guess.
E W Reese or Mrs. Donaldson's Line or what some jack *** called a Mohawk line is 101 years old. Two family's where in Illinois Greg Chamness and another family separate but the same gene pool Brian Simmons of Calhoun Florida. Now a good breeder has crossed these to lines together and I call them the half and half line. Things came out pretty good a few faults here and there but at least the first year ok. Maybe down the road in year two or three something may pop up but you deal with it and cull hard. What is needed is to bring the half and half's back to the Illinois line and breed in that direction. The Florida line was inbreed to much and the hatchability was extremely poor.

So these are examples of some very nice lines that have been breed pure for many years all the negative faults have been cleaned up and they are pretty simple to get and raise.

If you cross say a Underwood line male to a Flanagan or Radamaker female what do you think you are going to get. A hybrid vigorous chick for sure. But will you end up with a bird at 10 months of age that looks like their father and or mother. Maybe in dogs but in chickens I have not seen this. That is my point. I have crossed barred rocks onto white rocks and had the most fantastic typed wonderful tail males you ever saw. But the color was five to seven light years away. I scraped the project.

One R I Reds I have seen the crosses the last one was done in Illinois by a fiend three different lines or strains he crossed. He gave up and this guy is not a rookie and a judge. He said he was going with a pure line of birds from a old time breeder as he is getting to old to fool around and waist his latter years of life making mistakes like he did in the past five years.

Nuf said on this issue for me. I do not see any point in crossing strains unless you want vigor. You will not increase egg production or see great type or color. You will see faults up the yang yang.

For personnel use and not showing your birds this a different issue. Most people will not cull to the standard anyway so this does not pertain to them . Heck they love to cross and different breed onto a different breed to see what they will get. That's fine.

If you look at the New Hampshire female on the Heritage Large Fowl page that Jeremy took a picture of this is a cross I think of a Frank Reese and German bird. It turned out pretty good. He will fix the traits and get every thing straighten out in time. But you got to remember he is not a rookie at breeding he is a big time cattle breeder with many bulls on his place. He has the eye and the gut felling for breeding. This helps I think. Well I am going out to the back and hug a Silkie to make my self feel good. Hope to get a Seroma one day to put in my bird cage. You all have a nice day.

Steve if you see Matt tell him Da Ha he will know what I mean. bob