The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[RedRidge]

We were at -2 here in East TN this morning. We knew it was coming so serious preparations were made... not! ROFL
We tossed the de-ice discs in the water buckets and closed the coop doors before bed last night. (We rarely close the coop doors)
Chickens were happy when I opened the doors at 7 am... No worries as long as they have some shelter and a wind break. They really are much hardier than people think.

I was just talking to Gary Underwood on Monday and this subject came up. If they aren't hardy, do you really want them?
Some wise words he said... "when someone says to me, "my best bird just died", I always have to tell them I disagree. If it was your best bird he would still be alive. Your best one is always alive."
No truer words were spoken. ;-)

 

[BGMatt]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a true heritage Rhode Island Red is slow to mature and I noticed a few larger birds on here that are only around 6 months old. If your RIR is growing that big that fast, it's not heritage. It's production.

Usually I just lurk this thread, but everytime I hear something like this I have to speak up. 6 months/24 weeks was a very common goal for birds to mature (to the point of being laying or slaughter weight for males), going way back if you read the literature. People had to rely on the birds for food and income back then, couldn't afford to give them ages to mature. Yes they are slower to mature than a hatchery production bird that starts laying at 4-5 months max, but they shouldn't be that much slower. And that was with inferior nutritional and genetic knowledge. 'Heritage" birds are slower to mature than production birds, but I'm always confused when people think that means that they should take forever to be productive, and why it's acceptable when you can push these birds to still be productive. Big part of "heritage" is conformation to the Standard. From ALBC Heritage definition "4. Slow growth rate. Heritage Chicken must have a moderate to slow rate of growth, reaching appropriate market weight for the breed in no less than 16 weeks. This gives the chicken time to develop strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass." 16 weeks is only 4 months, so they're allowing even less time. You can find the whole definition here: http://www.albc-usa.org/heritagechicken/definition.html

 

[monnie662]

here in the deep south 15 degrees doesn't just sneak up it hits bottom like a rock and really messes stuff up, we like it when ya'll keep that up your way Fred put the gate back up LOL

Jeff

5 degrees on my hilltop this morning, and as my husband said he is tired of winter already.

 

[Fred's Hens]

here in the deep south 15 degrees doesn't just sneak up it hits bottom like a rock and really messes stuff up, we like it when ya'll keep that up your way Fred put the gate back up LOL

Jeff

Next summer when the heat gets above 90, I'll kindly ask y'all to do the same and keep that crap down there.

Jeff, in our younger days life took us from New Orleans to the desert of California. Hot is hot and cold is cold. It is what it is.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Usually I just lurk this thread, but everytime I hear something like this I have to speak up. 6 months/24 weeks was a very common goal for birds to mature (to the point of being laying or slaughter weight for males), going way back if you read the literature. People had to rely on the birds for food and income back then, couldn't afford to give them ages to mature. Yes they are slower to mature than a hatchery production bird that starts laying at 4-5 months max, but they shouldn't be that much slower. And that was with inferior nutritional and genetic knowledge. 'Heritage" birds are slower to mature than production birds, but I'm always confused when people think that means that they should take forever to be productive, and why it's acceptable when you can push these birds to still be productive. Big part of "heritage" is conformation to the Standard. From ALBC Heritage definition "4. Slow growth rate. Heritage Chicken must have a moderate to slow rate of growth, reaching appropriate market weight for the breed in no less than 16 weeks. This gives the chicken time to develop strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass." 16 weeks is only 4 months, so they're allowing even less time. You can find the whole definition here: http://www.albc-usa.org/heritagechicken/definition.html

I agree Matt. You keep posting that and I keep on agreeing. Just because an SOP American class bird is "slow", slow shouldn't mean 7 months to lay and 8 months to eating cockerels.

 

[RedRidge]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a true heritage Rhode Island Red is slow to mature and I noticed a few larger birds on here that are only around 6 months old. If your RIR is growing that big that fast, it's not heritage. It's production.

Usually I just lurk this thread, but everytime I hear something like this I have to speak up. 6 months/24 weeks was a very common goal for birds to mature (to the point of being laying or slaughter weight for males), going way back if you read the literature. People had to rely on the birds for food and income back then, couldn't afford to give them ages to mature. Yes they are slower to mature than a hatchery production bird that starts laying at 4-5 months max, but they shouldn't be that much slower. And that was with inferior nutritional and genetic knowledge. 'Heritage" birds are slower to mature than production birds, but I'm always confused when people think that means that they should take forever to be productive, and why it's acceptable when you can push these birds to still be productive. Big part of "heritage" is conformation to the Standard. From ALBC Heritage definition "[COLOR=003300]4. [/COLOR]Slow growth rate. [COLOR=003300] Heritage Chicken must have a moderate to slow rate of growth, reaching appropriate market weight for the breed in no less than 16 weeks. This gives the chicken time to develop strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass." 16 weeks is only 4 months, so they're allowing even less time. You can find the whole definition here: [/COLOR]http://www.albc-usa.org/heritagechicken/definition.html

POL goal here is 26 weeks...

 

[BGMatt]

I agree Matt. You keep posting that and I keep on agreeing. Just because an SOP American class bird is "slow", slow shouldn't mean 7 months to lay and 8 months to eating cockerels.

Or longer in some people's posts and comments. And I think the more people tolerate the glacial grow out times the worse it gets, and the less people will be interested in "heritage" SOP birds, and will stick with the production stuff because it...produces.

Here's a comparison, look at our athletes. Watch a college football or basketball game now compared to back then. Not only should we be able to do what our predecessors did with the birds, but we should be able to exceed it. Why settle for less?

Edit: And I apologize for repeating it so often, but it's really something that gets to me when people think that "Heritage" birds can't be productive too. There is absolutely no reason they can't be.

 

[chixmix]

I appreciate the input, I am new to heritage breeds and heard that somewhere. I knew I wasn't positive is why I asked for correction if I was wrong. Thanks for the heads up guys.

 

[BGMatt]

I appreciate the input, I am new to heritage breeds and heard that somewhere. I knew I wasn't positive is why I asked for correction if I was wrong. Thanks for the heads up guys.

It's a common thing, and it's really becoming an issue (imo anyway), because to keep productive traits you have to breed hard for them and cull hard. Due to the growing number of people that try and view chickens as pets instead of a food production animal, and therefore aren't willing to cull hard to keep productive traits....anyway, vicious cycle and good question.

 

[chixmix]

That is how the New Hampshire was introduced tho, according to Frank Reese's website. People bred for faster maturity until they created a new breed. So one should be careful not to overdue it as far as selecting for faster layers. I'm kind of just thinking out loud here.