The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[catdaddyfro]

Glad you posted up Ron I was just thinking of you this evening while out looking at those CR boys and girls hope you get your wheels back spinning at the normal pace soon and until then just tak'er easy those Reds will be there later its too cold to do anything anyhow.(for me) LOL

Jeff

 

[Rhinoman]

I follow this thread because there are so many knowledgeable folks on it. Me, I'm a newbie with a mixed flock of hatchery birds. I'll be getting my Heritage Ancona's this spring and will line breed them as described by the late Bob Blosls.

My comment is in regards to egg production or some lines lack thereof. I recently finished "High Egg Production By individual Hens, Pens and Flocks," It was originally published in 1922. I downloaded it free from Goggle books. Everyone used trap nesting to increase egg production. There's a thread for it here https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/567357/the-trap-nesting-thread/440 at Backyard Chickens other than the thread I never hear mention of trap nesting; Old timers swore by it.

How the heck can one be totally completely sure how many eggs a hen lays without either trap nesting or keeping hens in solitary pens? You can't. A quote from the book:

"The Hogan system, as we understand it, has not worked out well with us. Have studied it and tested it but did not find it reliable. With us that plan failed badly, and both ways. Birds that by the test should have done well, did not; while others that ought not have laid well, proved to be good layers. One hen that laid 249 eggs did not show up well by the Hogan test, while another that did extra well laid only 179 eggs.

When a man uses trap nest for FIFETEEN YEARS (my emphasis) -uses them every day in the year, keeps careful records and studies these records=he has a lot of theories knocked out of him. His judgment is the 365th day."

After a few decades of trap nesting egg yields where astonishing, with beautiful prize-winning SOP heritage birds even! It's no surprise people who remember farm flocks from the 50's envy the egg production of those birds.

Many breeds can come close to laying as well as leghorns when managed properly. I'll tell you from the book many breeds were laying almost equally well, Leghorns are used today due to feed to egg conversion, It's simple economics!

I'm going to trap nest my Anconas, I have the luxury of being father to six home-schooled kids, hey if I have to feed them they can at least check trap nest for me. Trap nesting with good record keeping will yield results it's a fact.

Another thing as anyone who understands genetics and just the basic laws of mother nature knows: everything will return to it's natural mediocrity quickly without proper oversight. If no attention is paid to egg production It is not long before egg production will drop off. The author states that many farm flocks that pay no attention to production have 60 egg per hen flock averages.

Bottom line: No reason one cannot breed beautiful SOP Heritage birds and increase production at the same time.

 

[immyjay54]

Yikes that sounds rough. Curiosity makes me ask if you use lights on the birds during winter months to try and get better laying or just let them go naturally?

My layer pen is divided into 3 parts. The 35 laying hens, the one with 6 and the one with 3 are all in the same building and yes there is a light in there that comes on at 5 am and off at 9 pm 12 months a year. lol I really think that this is all caused by our really different summer this past year and our really frigid winter so far this year.
I've never had my layer flock act like this. There are reds, light sussex, delawares, a couple bc marans, a buff orpington and a couple black stars. I have not had to buy eggs for 10 years or more.
Jim

 

[immyjay54]

We have had the negative temps here with the really neg wind chills too. It is rough when it is not the standard winter weather. Most of the area basically shut down for 2 days. Even the mail did not go the normal paths and most of it got delayed. But keeping fresh water in the pens was the second hardest task for us. The hardest was clearing the driveway. Since we don't typically get a foot of snow plus drifting at one time, we don't own a plow or decent snow blower. It had been almost 10 yrs since our drive needed plowing. For the most part all of the birds survived. I lost my chick today due to hatching issues from the humidity issues caused by the extremely cold drying our our house. I lost a few started eggs too when the incubator dropped a few degrees.

Sorry to hear about the chick but it's better to loose it now then have a weak sickly one that doesn't make it later on. As for the weather, it is nothing for us to get 2 to 3 feet at one time. I'm right at the bottom of the mountain and the wind bellows down off of there. My worst job with the chickens is running back and forth every 2 to 3 hours giving them some warm water. It freezes back up in a really short time. Drives me crazy.
Jim
This may seem like nothing and I've never seen it before but my dusk to dawn light wouldn't even stay on. It would be on for an hour or so then looked like a little candle then it would come back on for a while. lol

 

[Rancher3535]

I've seen the numbers on jim's web site, some of the RIR lines are very productive, but I did not know that winter production was so extremely low. Is this characteristic of most American Class Heritage lines.

As with any bird and winter it depends on if you are using natural light or if you are substituting artificial to keep their days at 12-14 hours of light each day. Egg production always goes down during winter if extra light is not added. Mine all go to bed with natural light but I do wake them up with artificial light. My lights come on at right now at 3:30 AM. At least 90% of them are on the roost by 5 PM ready for the sun to go down. Right now Columbian Wyandottes are laying well...20 pullets and getting 15-19 eggs a day...Barred Rocks 8 pullets and I get 3-6 eggs a day, cream legbars 2 pullets and I get usually 2 eggs a day, As for my Underwood RC Reds they have not started to lay yet. I just started to add light to their building and pen area. If I pull the lights out then productions drops considerably.

Rob

 

[Rancher3535]

Some one earlier was talking about rotational line breeding. Could this chart below be an example of what you were talking about?
I have never heard of the rotational until I read Bob's explanation. I have always called it pen mating. Seems like I am Mr Chart Man because my chicken note book has charts for each breed, incubation, egg production etc. Today I spent a little time in setting up my 2014 Columbian Wyandotte breeding pen. It looks like what you see below but with out the explanation boxes.

All birds have 2 zip ties
One indicates the year they were born the other is which pen they are from…as well as a toe punch.

2014 - Columbian Wyandottes Year-Florescent Green 2015 - Columbian Wyandottes Year-Florescent Red
Females-Toe Punch Pen Color Males Females Pen Color Males
Pen #1 \ o l / \ l / Red 11,12,13 Pen #5 Pen #1 \ l o/ \o l / Brown Pen #4
Pen #2 \ l o / \ l / Blue 21,22,23 Pen #1 Pen #2 \ l / \o l o/ LT Blue Pen #5
Pen #3 \ l / \ o l / White 31,32,33 Pen #2 Pen #3 \o l / \o l / Pink Pen #1
Pen #4 \ l / \ l o / Green 41,42,43,45 Pen #3 Pen #4 \ l o/ \ l o / Lavendar Pen #2
Pen #5 \ o l o / \ l / Yellow 1,3 Pen #4 Pen #5 \o l / \ l o/ Orange Pen #3
Pen #6 & #7 Pen #6 & #7
Pen #6 and 7# are the top two males from the previous year. They are rotated in with their daughters as a rule.

2016 - Columbian Wyandottes Year-Florescent Yellow 2017 - Columbian Wyandottes Year-Florescent ????
Females Pen Color Males Females Pen Color Males
Pen #1 \o l o/ \o l / Red Pen #3 Pen #1 \ o l / \ l / Brown Pen #2
Pen #2 \o l o/ \ l o/ Blue Pen #4 Pen #2 \ l o / \ l / LT Blue Pen #3
Pen #3 \o l / \o l o/ White Pen #5 Pen #3 \ l / \ o l / Pink Pen #4
Pen #4 \ l o/ \o l o / Green Pen #1 Pen #4 \ l / \ l o / Lavendar Pen #5
Pen #5 \o l o/ \o l o/ Yellow Pen #2 Pen #5 \ o l o / \ l / Orange Pen #1
Pen #6 & #7 Pen #6 & #7

Hope this is not to confusing. Works for me so thought I would share.
Rob

 

[Rancher3535]

Oppss after I clicked submit it compiled it way different than it does on my excel sheet ... sorry. I still have not figured out this site completely yet.

 

[lualshannon]

Interesting about the setting and hatching Jimmie- i do just the opposite.
I have a Styrofoam I set eggs in to incubate and a Brinsea 20 Octagon I use for hatching. I find it much easier to keep a constant and high enough humidity at hatching in the Brinsea than in the GQF. The GQF also holds twice as many eggs so i can rotate smaller batches to hatch each week in the Brinsea.
When I had just the Styrofoam, which I used for years, I had to play all kinds of games with little cups of water and sponges to keep my humidity eight after lock down. I have been toying with buying the humidity pump for the Brinsea. .. Just haven't decided if it's worth it yet.

Hi RedRidge,

I have Brisea humidity pump which I like very much, and is worth the expense. Once you set it up, it does wonderful job of keeping the humidity at the level of your choosing. Once a week or so, I replenish the water in the tank.

Lual

 

[Fentress]

I follow this thread because there are so many knowledgeable folks on it. Me, I'm a newbie with a mixed flock of hatchery birds. I'll be getting my Heritage Ancona's this spring and will line breed them as described by the late Bob Blosls.

My comment is in regards to egg production or some lines lack thereof. I recently finished "High Egg Production By individual Hens, Pens and Flocks," It was originally published in 1922. I downloaded it free from Goggle books. Everyone used trap nesting to increase egg production. There's a thread for it here https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/567357/the-trap-nesting-thread/440 at Backyard Chickens other than the thread I never hear mention of trap nesting; Old timers swore by it.

How the heck can one be totally completely sure how many eggs a hen lays without either trap nesting or keeping hens in solitary pens? You can't. A quote from the book:

"The Hogan system, as we understand it, has not worked out well with us. Have studied it and tested it but did not find it reliable. With us that plan failed badly, and both ways. Birds that by the test should have done well, did not; while others that ought not have laid well, proved to be good layers. One hen that laid 249 eggs did not show up well by the Hogan test, while another that did extra well laid only 179 eggs.

When a man uses trap nest for FIFETEEN YEARS (my emphasis) -uses them every day in the year, keeps careful records and studies these records=he has a lot of theories knocked out of him. His judgment is the 365th day."

After a few decades of trap nesting egg yields where astonishing, with beautiful prize-winning SOP heritage birds even! It's no surprise people who remember farm flocks from the 50's envy the egg production of those birds.

Many breeds can come close to laying as well as leghorns when managed properly. I'll tell you from the book many breeds were laying almost equally well, Leghorns are used today due to feed to egg conversion, It's simple economics!

I'm going to trap nest my Anconas, I have the luxury of being father to six home-schooled kids, hey if I have to feed them they can at least check trap nest for me. Trap nesting with good record keeping will yield results it's a fact.

Another thing as anyone who understands genetics and just the basic laws of mother nature knows: everything will return to it's natural mediocrity quickly without proper oversight. If no attention is paid to egg production It is not long before egg production will drop off. The author states that many farm flocks that pay no attention to production have 60 egg per hen flock averages.

Bottom line: No reason one cannot breed beautiful SOP Heritage birds and increase production at the same time.

Interesting post. Thanks. Just started reading Call of The Hen. It's not good news, since there is no way I am going to trap nest. I will record production when I set up breeding pens this spring, but that is going to be it.

 

[RedRidge]

I actually considered trap nesting last year and aftera lot of research on different types of trap nests (both purchased and home made), decided that even though I was willing to spend the time, it was cost prohibitive.
So... I will stick with trios, families, and toe punching.

Concerning line breeding... I'm a huge fan of line breeding, especially with my cattle and sheep, but am careful not to line breed too tightly with my RIR (at Gary's recommendation).

If you are new to genetics or breeding it's important to know what you have to know how much line breeding can be tolerated.