The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[BGMatt]

Thanks, sounds logical.

So when you guys have a good thing going, what is your cull rate?

One of my mentors once told me that there is no maintaining in poultry. You're either making progress or going backwards. For a given breeding 10-20% are going to be superior and worth breeding from to push your line forward. 10-20% are going to be inferior and should be culled, dead, period, removed from anyone's breeding program. The remainder are about the same quality wise, those are your show birds, your birds to share with others, your layers & meat birds etc. Still good representatives of the breed, but aren't going to push your program forward.

 

[chixmix]

One of my mentors once told me that there is no maintaining in poultry. You're either making progress or going backwards. For a given breeding 10-20% are going to be superior and worth breeding from to push your line forward. 10-20% are going to be inferior and should be culled, dead, period, removed from anyone's breeding program. The remainder are about the same quality wise, those are your show birds, your birds to share with others, your layers & meat birds etc. Still good representatives of the breed, but aren't going to push your program forward.

NIce, I like that response a lot!!

 

[chixmix]

Let me turn that question around. When I hatch 50-60 chicks, I only expect three or four, perhaps 5 chicks to meet my goals for the next generation. That's all I'm looking for and all I wish to carry through the next winter. It doesn't mean that the other 50 chicks are not really good birds, it is just that for reasons of selection, they won't help me going forward. You might be surprised to know how few birds get carried through the following winter. With pen space and feed costs, keeping a hundred breeders is quite challenging and not as common as sometimes people think. Cockerels can be eaten. Pullets can placed in laying flocks for eggs. Birds can be sold at the time of cull. Hope that helps.

Right, I'm thinking 3 or 4 pens with trios or quads once I get the ball rolling good. We also have Orpingtons, Red Star breeders, 3 quads of turkeys, that feed bill is a monster.

We do sell eggs, I certainly know what you mean with the headache. Broken isn't the problem, it's the separated chalaza that most people don't know how to deal with.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Bob Blosl wasn't the only person to express the following wisdom, as I know very well others here, including Yellow House Farm and others have said it as well.

The "average" person, whatever the heck that is, cannot keep more than one true bred line going. At most two and even two is challenging. Those who try find they get all A.D.D. and soon are gone. Out of the hobby and gone from the scene.

Why? Because if you're gonna do justice to a breed, you've got to hatch, either yourself or combined with your partner(s) a hundred chicks per year, otherwise you fall backward. It's easier with partners to hit that number, but that number is based on a lot of experience and wisdom. With multiple breeds people either hatch only 30 chicks and soon those birds are going backward. Having 3 or 4 breeds, even at 40 chicks per breed, finds people overwhelmed with space, feed costs and all the attendant issues that come from large numbers of birds.

They're overwhelmed and they give it all up. Nothing ever much comes of their breeding programs.

This is why it is so often recommended that folks focus. The Attention Deficit Disorder thing will cause a lot of folks to be what Bob used to call "Here today, and gone tomorrow" He'd always ask the question, "Are you different?" "Will you be one of the chosen?" meaning will you be an exception and not fail?

 

[RedRidge]

 
Thanks, sounds logical.

So when you guys have a good thing going, what is your cull rate?

Let me turn that question around.  When I hatch 50-60 chicks, I only expect three or four, perhaps 5 chicks to meet my goals for the next generation.  That's all I'm looking for and all I wish to carry through the next winter.  It doesn't mean that the other 50 chicks are not really good birds, it is just that for reasons of selection, they won't help me going forward.  You might be surprised to know how few birds get carried through the following winter.  With pen space and feed costs, keeping a hundred breeders is quite challenging and not as common as sometimes people think.   Cockerels can be eaten.  Pullets can placed in laying flocks for eggs.  Birds can be sold at the time of cull.  Hope that helps.

Again well worded Fred.
And another reason it is easier to buy on the fall. I might raise 100 out but will gradually begin eliminating when they ate just a few months old. By fall only a dozen or fewer remain.

And btw... If I don't sell them by slaughter date in Oct? The pullet's taste good too. ;-)

 

[chixmix]

Bob Blosl wasn't the only person to express the following wisdom, as I know very well others here, including Yellow House Farm and others have said it as well.

The "average" person, whatever the heck that is, cannot keep more than one true bred line going. At most two and even two is challenging. Those who try find they get all A.D.D. and soon are gone. Out of the hobby and gone from the scene.

Why? Because if you're gonna do justice to a breed, you've got to hatch, either yourself or combined with your partner(s) a hundred chicks per year, otherwise you fall backward. It's easier with partners to hit that number, but that number is based on a lot of experience and wisdom. With multiple breeds people either hatch only 30 chicks and soon those birds are going backward. Having 3 or 4 breeds, even at 40 chicks per breed, finds people overwhelmed with space, feed costs and all the attendant issues that come from large numbers of birds.

They're overwhelmed and they give it all up. Nothing ever much comes of their breeding programs.

This is why it is so often recommended that folks focus. The Attention Deficit Disorder thing will cause a lot of folks to be what Bob used to call "Here today, and gone tomorrow" He'd always ask the question, "Are you different?" "Will you be one of the chosen?" meaning will you be an exception and not fail?

I certainly see the logic in that. I am in a good position tho, this is my job, and I absolutely love it. The turkeys, I just breed to sell meat and eggs. The Opringtons, my gf and I both take care of. I really do want to focus on these heritage Reds, I think they need to be preserved for the future.

 

[RedRidge]

Also... Next fall might be a good time to get trios. I know it's a ways away, but the nationals are in Knoxville next fall and should present a lot of options.

I know I will have some trios in the fall. Sometimes is easier to find trios in this breed rather than chicks.

When you all sell trio's, are they cousins, aunts, uncles? I know this may be a tall order, but I really would rather not have siblings in a trio.

I guess buying eggs from a few different breeders, of the same line, would not be a good idea?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just wanting to be sure to get off to a good start, unlike what I ended up with currently.

All chicks are toe punched by pen... All trios are put together accordingly.

 

[rancher hicks]

Bob Blosl wasn't the only person to express the following wisdom, as I know very well others here, including Yellow House Farm and others have said it as well.

The "average" person, whatever the heck that is, cannot keep more than one true bred line going. At most two and even two is challenging. Those who try find they get all A.D.D. and soon are gone. Out of the hobby and gone from the scene.

Why? Because if you're gonna do justice to a breed, you've got to hatch, either yourself or combined with your partner(s) a hundred chicks per year, otherwise you fall backward. It's easier with partners to hit that number, but that number is based on a lot of experience and wisdom. With multiple breeds people either hatch only 30 chicks and soon those birds are going backward. Having 3 or 4 breeds, even at 40 chicks per breed, finds people overwhelmed with space, feed costs and all the attendant issues that come from large numbers of birds.

They're overwhelmed and they give it all up. Nothing ever much comes of their breeding programs.

This is why it is so often recommended that folks focus. The Attention Deficit Disorder thing will cause a lot of folks to be what Bob used to call "Here today, and gone tomorrow" He'd always ask the question, "Are you different?" "Will you be one of the chosen?" meaning will you be an exception and not fail?

I am realizing this right now. Though I don't agree that anyone is chosen but HAS chosen. I'm choosing to part with birds of different breeds so I can focus one another. I need the room.

But I don't expect to be a "breeder". I just don't have the money nor the space.

I do have a question though. How far is one expected to go with a breed before they consider it a success?

 

[SallyinIndiana]

All chicks are toe punched by pen... All trios are put together accordingly.

Do you do anything special to keep those tiny toe punch holes free of chick residue (poo, wet feed, shavings)? I have only toe punched one chick but its foot is getting a bath every night and sometimes in the morning too.

 

[BGMatt]

Bob Blosl wasn't the only person to express the following wisdom, as I know very well others here, including Yellow House Farm and others have said it as well.

The "average" person, whatever the heck that is, cannot keep more than one true bred line going. At most two and even two is challenging. Those who try find they get all A.D.D. and soon are gone. Out of the hobby and gone from the scene.

Why? Because if you're gonna do justice to a breed, you've got to hatch, either yourself or combined with your partner(s) a hundred chicks per year, otherwise you fall backward. It's easier with partners to hit that number, but that number is based on a lot of experience and wisdom. With multiple breeds people either hatch only 30 chicks and soon those birds are going backward. Having 3 or 4 breeds, even at 40 chicks per breed, finds people overwhelmed with space, feed costs and all the attendant issues that come from large numbers of birds.

They're overwhelmed and they give it all up. Nothing ever much comes of their breeding programs.

This is why it is so often recommended that folks focus. The Attention Deficit Disorder thing will cause a lot of folks to be what Bob used to call "Here today, and gone tomorrow" He'd always ask the question, "Are you different?" "Will you be one of the chosen?" meaning will you be an exception and not fail?

Emphasis mine obviously, but I think (and hopefully you agree) that's a minimum. And that number is birds to select from for yourself. If you hatch 100 and sell 75 of them and only raise out 25, that doesn't cut it either if you want to make progress. The more you hatch the faster progress you'll make that year too.