The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[HallFamilyFarm]

Quote:
We have local club members in Florida this week. Not sure when they are returning. They are on vacation, visiting family. On their return they are buying some excellent heritage Jersey Giants. They are currently near Lakewood Park, FL.

 

[FOGELLY]

Jim,
I am very sad to hear about Jimmy's birds.
It is things like this that show how vulnerable these rare strains of birds are. When something happens there are not many out there to replace them. Make me nervous that I may have not kept enough from this year. I did however plant enough seeds to get some back to start again if something happens here.
I hatched almost 100 this year. I shared them with five people around Arkansas and Texas. Sent eggs to a couple more people. One in South Dakota ( he hatched 26 out of 28 eggs) and another person in California.

Because feed took such a jump last couple weeks I decided it was time to select my keepers from this year. Last week I selected 10 pullets and 4 cockerels from this year to keep. Then I traded 4 pullets and 2 cockerels for 7 young Plymouth Barred Rocks that came from Jeremy Woeppel in Nebraska.
So unfortunatly I won't be able to help with pullets right know. I do have a pen full of cockerels if that would help. There are severel nice ones in there. They are all between 18-23 weeks old. They are headed to the freezer very soon.

Ron Fogle

 

[Robert Blosl]

Bob, NYREDS

I have been breeding with nothing but type in mind. Color has not been part of the equation at all.
However my current batch of 18-23 week old birds have almost black beaks, are deeper red, have more color on their legs and have better color as a group than their predecessors.
Here is a question, is this because the typer birds have the best genes and these genes also tie back to the old time color?
Or is it just dumb luck?

Ron

Have no idea. All I would do is raise them up keep two good males four good females and do it over again. Breed for type with color like that in the beaks and deep red just look for type it would take about five years for the color to start fading. By then you will have a handle on the art and then you can start breeding for color. bob

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Jim,
I am very sad to hear about Jimmy's birds.
It is things like this that show how vulnerable these rare strains of birds are. When something happens there are not many out there to replace them. Make me nervous that I may have not kept enough from this year. I did however plant enough seeds to get some back to start again if something happens here.
I hatched almost 100 this year. I shared them with five people around Arkansas and Texas. Sent eggs to a couple more people. One in South Dakota ( he hatched 26 out of 28 eggs) and another person in California.

Because feed took such a jump last couple weeks I decided it was time to select my keepers from this year. Last week I selected 10 pullets and 4 cockerels from this year to keep. Then I traded 4 pullets and 2 cockerels for 7 young Plymouth Barred Rocks that came from Jeremy Woeppel in Nebraska.
So unfortunatly I won't be able to help with pullets right know. I do have a pen full of cockerels if that would help. There are severel nice ones in there. They are all between 18-23 weeks old. They are headed to the freezer very soon.

Ron Fogle

I will let Jimmy know. I am sure he will want at least one cockerel, maybe two. If nothing else we will find him some hatchery pullets to keep the cockerel company. Thanks.

 

[docdandc]

How does the Hogan method of evaluation work on the Heritage RIR's? Will it match up with some of them with the good conformation that we are looking for? Has anybody here tried it for validity?

 

[NYREDS]

Never heard of The Hogan Method Of Evaluation so I couldn't say.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Never heard of The Hogan Method Of Evaluation so I couldn't say.

Is this it? http://www.archive.org/stream/callhenscience00hogarich/callhenscience00hogarich_djvu.txt.

 

[NYREDS]

Bob, NYREDS

I have been breeding with nothing but type in mind. Color has not been part of the equation at all.
However my current batch of 18-23 week old birds have almost black beaks, are deeper red, have more color on their legs and have better color as a group than their predecessors.
Here is a question, is this because the typer birds have the best genes and these genes also tie back to the old time color?
Or is it just dumb luck?
Ron

It's never "dumb luck"; if it's the result you were looking for it's always because of your skill as a breeder. :-] Can't answer you question with any certainty though. In Reds some type factors seem to be linked to some colour factors so that may be the case here. In any event it sounds like your breeding decisions have been good ones since they are leading you in the right direction.

 

[cmom]

How does the Hogan method of evaluation work on the Heritage RIR's? Will it match up with some of them with the good conformation that we are looking for? Has anybody here tried it for validity?

Never heard of it either.

This is the only thing I have heard of and it isn't remotely related.
"Hogan Assessment Systems" Evaluating Personality-Based Job Requirements

 

[3riverschick]

Never heard of it either.

Good question. The Hogan method is for developing a line of high production layers. Now, as a rule, high production layers have narrower bodies and shallower chests. If your breed is a dual purpose breed, or one in which a meaty bird is desired, then probably the Hogan method isn't for you. Back when it was written, the next big thing was creating strains of super layers for the egg market. Everyone was doing it.
The Industrial Revolution and Machine Age had brought many hundred of thousands of people to the cities. Many of these folk no longer had or desired to have poultry flocks for their egg source. So now we have this huge demand for eggs in the cities, for eating, for baking, etc This helped give rise to the huge poultry egg and meat farms. These farms needed a super-layer to make them most efficient. Experts abounded with plans and systems to make this happen. The type they wanted in body structure was the super layer. that's what the Hogan system produces.
There is another way to select for increased egg production. It was valued back then and I know one elite veteran breeder who has tried it in his flock and is having good success. The book is small. A booklet , really. The booklet is available onlin at Archive.org , " Breeding and Culling By Head Points".
http://archive.org/details/BreedingAndCullingByHeadPoints
The emphasis here is on certain head points of the hen which define a quality layers. It's a short, illustrated fascinating read. It also explains why any breeds which place laying as a virtue, place importance on the qualities of the head.
From reading this booklet, it seems to me, this is one way of creating a better layer without sacrificing the body structure needed for a meaty bird.
Yet there is a tipping point n poultry when the egg laying abilities of a dual-purpose hen naturally cause the body structure to shift in composition from a dual-purpose bird to an egg layer.
I think the trick in dual-purpose fowl is to get a close to that point as possible without crossing the threshold and changing the structure of the meaty bird which is also desired in that breed. I have not been in poultry long enough to try this out in my flock however the logic seems sound . Think I will definitely keep a critical eye on my hens' head points in the future.
Best Regards,
Karen in western PA, USA