The Imported English Jubilee Orpington Thread

[KayTdid]

Question- Is it normal for Jubilee Orps to have extra toes? A couple of my newly hatched chicks have a little feathering on their legs, which I found out can happen in the English breeds, but I just noticed that two of them have an extra toe on their left foot, looking a little like a silkie. One of them even has a strange little split toe with two nails on the other foot. These were sold to me as 100% English bloodline Jubilee Orpingtons from Marc Sacre and Greenfire Farms lines. Anyone know anything about this toe business?

To clarify, I bought some juvenile English Orps to start my own flock. I hatched out these chicks recently from the original birds I bought.

 

[seeingeyepuppy]

How much r they? I'm in pa and I'm a 4-her looking for some for showman ship and just because they r beautiful and I love Orpingtons

 

[kittydoc]

To clarify, I bought some juvenile English Orps to start my own flock. I hatched out these chicks recently from the original birds I bought.

IMO there is not enough genetic diversity in Jubilee Orps. Even if your breeding stock lacked these issues, at some point there will be trouble. Pretty much everyone is working with Marc Sacre and Greenfire Farms lines. The other factors that add to defects are improper incubation (temperature and/or humidity) conditions and improper nutrition (breeders really need "more" of some nutrients than regular layer feed). I had healthier chicks later in the season (I live in the Midwest, where it was bitter cold the previous two winters) than I did early on. Another thing I did was add water-soluble vitamins to all the breeders' water supplies. I only keep a few Jubilees for my own amusement because they're beautiful, but I sold the hens that had the poorest outcomes to people who had NO Jubilees to breed them to, who said they just wanted a little "flock art." I didn't pass along trouble to anyone else knowingly, but there are breeders who don't care or who stick their head in the sand about defects. BTW, I am NOT talking about you!

The leg feathering can happen in any English Orp and is obviously not a health issue. I have not personally seen or bred any five or split-toed birds of any breed, though I have Dorkings ordered and they are five-toed normally.

If I decide I have the wherewithall to do it, I'm going to spend the 3 years it can take to make blue Jubilees just to improve their genetic diversity. Still haven't decided. It's easier to breed other colors, honestly. I have lavs, BBS, chocolate, and chocolate cuckoo, too (and should have mauve chicks later this year). My lavs and black splits to lav chicks last year were more robust than my Jubilees, though I mixed them up by combining one of the best American lav lines (hinkjc) with English black splits. Those babies were awesome and grew into fabulous adults, very healthy, very attractive, and the roos had superb qualities (no people aggression, easy on the girls, but effective breeders and great protection). That's more fun!

My remaining four Jubilees include a Greenfire roo (he's also a good boy) and three Sacre/Greenfire hens from a different breeder.

 

[flocktastic]

IMO there is not enough genetic diversity in Jubilee Orps.  Even if your breeding stock lacked these issues, at some point there will be trouble.  Pretty much everyone is working with Marc Sacre and Greenfire Farms lines.  The other factors that add to defects are improper incubation (temperature and/or humidity) conditions and improper nutrition (breeders really need "more" of some nutrients than regular layer feed).  I had healthier chicks later in the season (I live in the Midwest, where it was bitter cold the previous two winters) than I did early on.  Another thing I did was add water-soluble vitamins to all the breeders' water supplies.  I only keep a few Jubilees for my own amusement because they're beautiful, but I sold the hens that had the poorest outcomes to people who had NO Jubilees to breed them to, who said they just wanted a little "flock art."  I didn't pass along trouble to anyone else knowingly, but there are breeders who don't care or who stick their head in the sand about defects.  BTW, I am NOT talking about you!

The leg feathering can happen in any English Orp and is obviously not a health issue.  I have not personally seen or bred any five or split-toed birds of any breed, though I have Dorkings ordered and they are five-toed normally.

If I decide I have the wherewithall to do it, I'm going to spend the 3 years it can take to make blue Jubilees just to improve their genetic diversity.  Still haven't decided.  It's easier to breed other colors, honestly.  I have lavs, BBS, chocolate, and chocolate cuckoo, too (and should have mauve chicks later this year).  My lavs and black splits to lav chicks last year were more robust than my Jubilees, though I mixed them up by combining one of the best American lav lines (hinkjc) with English black splits.  Those babies were awesome and grew into fabulous adults, very healthy, very attractive, and the roos had superb qualities (no people aggression, easy on the girls, but effective breeders and great protection).  That's more fun!

My remaining four Jubilees include a Greenfire roo (he's also a good boy) and three Sacre/Greenfire hens from a different breeder.

Interesting info!! I enjoyed reading it! Can I ask - (unrelated to JO's) but I'm doing my first ever incubation - I have some shipped eggs, some of our own mixed barnyard flock and some from a local gal here...as far as my flock though, I'd like to know recommendations for any vitamins or supplements that would just be good, standard things to add for them (via their water or food source) - especially for any of my girls I'm trying to hatch eggs from.

My older flock has 10 hens and 1 roo. They occasionally free range...& besides their regular food and water, I give them veggies, fruits etc like most do with their chickens.

Thanks for any additional tips and help!

 

[KayTdid]

IMO there is not enough genetic diversity in Jubilee Orps. Even if your breeding stock lacked these issues, at some point there will be trouble. Pretty much everyone is working with Marc Sacre and Greenfire Farms lines. The other factors that add to defects are improper incubation (temperature and/or humidity) conditions and improper nutrition (breeders really need "more" of some nutrients than regular layer feed). I had healthier chicks later in the season (I live in the Midwest, where it was bitter cold the previous two winters) than I did early on. Another thing I did was add water-soluble vitamins to all the breeders' water supplies. I only keep a few Jubilees for my own amusement because they're beautiful, but I sold the hens that had the poorest outcomes to people who had NO Jubilees to breed them to, who said they just wanted a little "flock art." I didn't pass along trouble to anyone else knowingly, but there are breeders who don't care or who stick their head in the sand about defects. BTW, I am NOT talking about you!

The leg feathering can happen in any English Orp and is obviously not a health issue. I have not personally seen or bred any five or split-toed birds of any breed, though I have Dorkings ordered and they are five-toed normally.

If I decide I have the wherewithall to do it, I'm going to spend the 3 years it can take to make blue Jubilees just to improve their genetic diversity. Still haven't decided. It's easier to breed other colors, honestly. I have lavs, BBS, chocolate, and chocolate cuckoo, too (and should have mauve chicks later this year). My lavs and black splits to lav chicks last year were more robust than my Jubilees, though I mixed them up by combining one of the best American lav lines (hinkjc) with English black splits. Those babies were awesome and grew into fabulous adults, very healthy, very attractive, and the roos had superb qualities (no people aggression, easy on the girls, but effective breeders and great protection). That's more fun!

My remaining four Jubilees include a Greenfire roo (he's also a good boy) and three Sacre/Greenfire hens from a different breeder.

Admittedly, this was my first time using an incubator to hatch chicks, and they hatched late-day 22-25, so I will have to adjust the temp. setting with the next hatch. I also realized (afterward) that I should have been giving the adults a vitamin supplement, which I promptly went to the Tractor Supply and purchased. My chickens are free range and I usually don't bother with the vitamins, but I wasn't thinking about it being winter and not a lot of greens or bugs for them to munch on. I hope the extra vitamins and adjustment in the hatching temp. will fix the toe problem. Now, I'll need to find someone who will take these extra toed Jubilees and not breed them. I won't be breeding them and I surely don't want to be the cause of any malformations in future. I guess I need to keep my eyes out for a new bloodline to add to my flock. Is there a list of the available Jubilee bloodlines and where to get them somewhere? I still have a lot to learn.

You are blessed to have so many beautiful colors. I would LOVE to have another English Orpington color. But I'm all about the temperament and body type. They have to be sweet and round with big fluffy butts! lol That is why I went with the Jubilees to start, I wanted some pretty hens with a nice rooster, and they have a good reputation for that. I have been looking at some English buffs, but in my area it might be hard to sell them for what they're worth because there are so many of the American buffs available for much lower prices. I also like the chocolates, I always thought if I got some I'd name my rooster "Hershey." But what I'd really love is to take a vacation in Europe and bring back lots of beautiful birds. A girl can dream, can't she?

Thanks a bunch for your thoughtful reply, I appreciate it. Good luck with your blue Jubilees

 

[KayTdid]

How much r they? I'm in pa and I'm a 4-her looking for some for showman ship and just because they r beautiful and I love Orpingtons

Well, I live in Tennessee and I'm not up to speed on the cross state shipping laws for birds yet. Not to mention the only ones I'll have for sale is the extra toed chicks, so I don't think they would be very good for a show. I hope you can find some closer to your area. Thanks for asking

 

[kittydoc]

@KayTdid My English chocolate cuckoo Orp's name is Hershey, and his breeder has a roo named Hershey, too. Great minds think alike! My solid chocolate female's name is Cocoa. She is a doll and makes the most lovely cooing sounds.

My English black female FINALLY came back into lay, so I will have sex-linked offspring from her and Hershey--all the chocolate/chocolate cuckoos will be female chicks, and all the black/black cuckoos will be male chicks split to chocolate. Then next I'll breed him to my blue girl(s) and make mauve. Can't wait!

BTW, Jubilees can be shown in showmanship class in 4H (not in regular conformation classes, though, since it is not an APA approved color). But you're right, you wouldn't want to show a bird with obvious "defects" even in showmanship, but they needn't be perfect otherwise. That class is about how the kid grooms, handles, and talks about the bird, I'm pretty sure.

@flocktastic I use a water-soluble mix of vitamins for poultry (I think...it may have been for multiple species but with different directions) that I purchased very inexpensively at Tractor Supply. Any place like that or Rural King, what have you, in your area will carry something like that. Water soluble vitamins are very safe, but should be given as directed. Excess goes into their poo. The fat-soluble vitamins are ADEK. They are important, too, but I just count on their feed for those. I also feed fruit and veggies. The chickens get most of our garden every year now, plus we buy some fruit for them during the winter (like bananas, which are always popular). Oh, and we don't use the cheapest feed for the breeders, either. The regular layer flock gets half Dumor (which is the cheapest around here) and half Nutrena, while the breeders get 100% Nutrena. If you sign up on Nutrena's website, you'll get a coupon with their little e-newsletter every month or so. $2 off makes it more competitive with the Dumor, though still more expensive. We did an experiment last year and shell quality was definitely better with Nutrena than with straight Dumor. Half and half seems to work well for our mixed layer flock that we keep for selling eggs for consumption. That flock includes some hatchery buff Orps and Australorps that we started with, as well as a few purebreds that are either "one-offs" like our Light Brahma and Ameracauna, and Orps not being used currently for breeding.

 

[KayTdid]

@KayTdid My English chocolate cuckoo Orp's name is Hershey, and his breeder has a roo named Hershey, too. Great minds think alike! My solid chocolate female's name is Cocoa. She is a doll and makes the most lovely cooing sounds.

My English black female FINALLY came back into lay, so I will have sex-linked offspring from her and Hershey--all the chocolate/chocolate cuckoos will be female chicks, and all the black/black cuckoos will be male chicks split to chocolate. Then next I'll breed him to my blue girl(s) and make mauve. Can't wait!

BTW, Jubilees can be shown in showmanship class in 4H (not in regular conformation classes, though, since it is not an APA approved color). But you're right, you wouldn't want to show a bird with obvious "defects" even in showmanship, but they needn't be perfect otherwise. That class is about how the kid grooms, handles, and talks about the bird, I'm pretty sure.

@flocktastic I use a water-soluble mix of vitamins for poultry (I think...it may have been for multiple species but with different directions) that I purchased very inexpensively at Tractor Supply. Any place like that or Rural King, what have you, in your area will carry something like that. Water soluble vitamins are very safe, but should be given as directed. Excess goes into their poo. The fat-soluble vitamins are ADEK. They are important, too, but I just count on their feed for those. I also feed fruit and veggies. The chickens get most of our garden every year now, plus we buy some fruit for them during the winter (like bananas, which are always popular). Oh, and we don't use the cheapest feed for the breeders, either. The regular layer flock gets half Dumor (which is the cheapest around here) and half Nutrena, while the breeders get 100% Nutrena. If you sign up on Nutrena's website, you'll get a coupon with their little e-newsletter every month or so. $2 off makes it more competitive with the Dumor, though still more expensive. We did an experiment last year and shell quality was definitely better with Nutrena than with straight Dumor. Half and half seems to work well for our mixed layer flock that we keep for selling eggs for consumption. That flock includes some hatchery buff Orps and Australorps that we started with, as well as a few purebreds that are either "one-offs" like our Light Brahma and Ameracauna, and Orps not being used currently for breeding.

The more you talk about those beautiful chocolates, the more you make me want some. lol I have never heard of mauve Orpingtons. Wish I could see a picture of one...

 

[kittydoc]

@KayTdid I have a friend with mauves. He has a killer gorgeous roo. I'll check to see if he'll let me post it.

 

[Greg88]

@KayTdid I have a friend with mauves. He has a killer gorgeous roo. I'll check to see if he'll let me post it.

Please do!