The Legbar Thread!

[nicalandia]

I took pics of my pair after they hatched, I love to keep a record of how they looked at hatch and fully matured. So here is my pair, how would you describe their coloring, based on the chick down.

I think they both look good(from pics)

 

[dretd]

(1)grey silverish looking chicks have the cream gene.

(2)chicks lacking the cream gene will look like normal gold legbar chicks

(3)chicks with the cream gene and autosomal red will have an intermediate look

thats basically the reason for so much color variation on the USA. yet the UK have less variation, and this infact could be due to different e+ loci

I wanted to clarify on your above statement. Because Cream is a recessive gene, chicks carrying one copy of the cream gene will also look like #2: normal gold legbar chicks.

Don't get me wrong--I think it is really important to recognize what is cream and not cream by look and this is a very good learning discussion. However, in my opinion, it is also important to realize that it may be necessary to keep these chicks around to see how they mature as adults. My fear is that these chicks may be discarded because of incorrect color phenotype (look) but they may have other desirable traits to be passed on to further generations. I am concerned that if we only focus on color and eliminate based solely on color, it may take us longer and be much harder to bring the rest of the breed up to ideal standards as important genetics have been discarded along with the 'wrong' color.

PS: does anyone else have to stop themselves from typing colour instead of color--it seems more fitting for these beautiful birds?

 

[dretd]

On a positive note, I set the 9 CL eggs (plus 3 Ameraucana) that Steen so generously gave me (I can't say it enough--thank you so much, Steen!) this morning so in 3 weeks or so I will post photos of the wee chicks and their colors for us to pick apart and analyze.

 

[ChicKat]

I wanted to clarify on your above statement. Because Cream is a recessive gene, chicks carrying one copy of the cream gene will also look like #2: normal gold legbar chicks.

Don't get me wrong--I think it is really important to recognize what is cream and not cream by look and this is a very good learning discussion. However, in my opinion, it is also important to realize that it may be necessary to keep these chicks around to see how they mature as adults. My fear is that these chicks may be discarded because of incorrect color phenotype (look) but they may have other desirable traits to be passed on to further generations. I am concerned that if we only focus on color and eliminate based solely on color, it may take us longer and be much harder to bring the rest of the breed up to ideal standards as important genetics have been discarded along with the 'wrong' color.

PS: does anyone else have to stop themselves from typing colour instead of color--it seems more fitting for these beautiful birds?

Good insights dretrd!

IMO we have neglected important things thinking only about color. Great congrats to those who are making progress in color or colour, but actually in a survey, I think color was considered the least attractive trait. First was autosexing, second was blue eggs, tied for third were personality and look -- and in 4th the cream color. Just an FYI for us.

Good luck with the hatch. Can't wait to see your chicks!!

 

[nicalandia]

I wanted to clarify on your above statement. Because Cream is a recessive gene, chicks carrying one copy of the cream gene will also look like #2: normal gold legbar chicks.

Don't get me wrong--I think it is really important to recognize what is cream and not cream by look and this is a very good learning discussion. However, in my opinion, it is also important to realize that it may be necessary to keep these chicks around to see how they mature as adults. My fear is that these chicks may be discarded because of incorrect color phenotype (look) but they may have other desirable traits to be passed on to further generations. I am concerned that if we only focus on color and eliminate based solely on color, it may take us longer and be much harder to bring the rest of the breed up to ideal standards as important genetics have been discarded along with the 'wrong' color.

PS: does anyone else have to stop themselves from typing colour instead of color--it seems more fitting for these beautiful birds?

I have always said that a good type and body gold looking CCL are keepers, as good type and body size is hard to come by. the color can be emprove at a later time. heck I would say if you want to emprove your gold looking birds that have good type, and do it Quick and rather simple. you could use Silver Leghorn females with good type and size.. Silver is rather easy to get rid off in the future because its a simple dominant gene

 

[nicalandia]

in the UK the breeder of this Male was told that this male could be in fact be Silver instead of gold with ig/g so she made a test outcross to a silver duckwing welsummer hen

this is the Rooster it belongs to Jilly potter from the U.K dont mind the date on the pic




can you guys guess the outcome? I'll post them in a while

 

[babymakes6]

in the UK the breeder of this Male was told that this male could be in fact be Silver instead of gold with ig/g so she made a test outcross to a silver duckwing welsummer hen

this is the Rooster it belongs to Jilly potter from the U.K dont mind the date on the pic




can you guys guess the outcome? I'll post them in a while

Patiently (or not!) waiting! I know so little I'd be afraid to guess!

 

[nicalandia]

Patiently (or not!) waiting! I know so little I'd be afraid to guess!

dont be afraid. its fun to play the guess game

 

[dretd]

in the UK the breeder of this Male was told that this male could be in fact be Silver instead of gold with ig/g so she made a test outcross to a silver duckwing welsummer hen...

can you guys guess the outcome? I'll post them in a while

OK, so I am trying to think this through.

The silver duckwing Wellie is dominant for silver so wouldn't all of her chicks carry the dominant silver gene? So to make this work silver must be a sex linked trait and if he is silver then everyone will be silver and if he is cream then all of the boys will be silver (from the hen) but the girls will be cream. Now if my assumptions are true I am still confused because I thought that you said that you can't tell the difference between cream and silver and all of the chicks will still look diluted. Additionally, couldn't he be both silver and cream?

So wouldn't it be better to breed him to a regular Wellie and if the chicks are silver then he carries silver and if none are diluted then he is carrying cream and it was passed as a recessive gene? Or am I totally mixed up again?

As for guessing. Sure why not. I'm going to guess he is Silver just cuz.

 

[nicalandia]

OK, so I am trying to think this through.

thats great, thats how new ideas starts...

.The silver duckwing Wellie is dominant for silver so wouldn't all of her chicks carry the dominant silver gene? So to make this work silver must be a sex linked trait and if he is silver then everyone will be silver and if he is cream then all of the boys will be silver (from the hen) but the girls will be cream.

you are correct Silver is a dominant trait and is also a sex linked gene. BUT... the girls will look gold(since cream is recessive and their only copy of ig wont show Ig+/ig)

Now if my assumptions are true I am still confused because I thought that you said that you can't tell the difference between cream and silver and all of the chicks will still look diluted.

phenotypically speaking you would have a hard time telling the difference between a none red enhanced(like autosomal red and/or mahogany) "Cream" Crele bird(ig/ig B/B) male from a Clean(no chestnutt) Silver Crele bird,... BUT as I said before autosomal red is one tough gene to get rid off and even pure silver or cream birds can get contaminated by it making it Impossible for you to tell the difference between cream crele and silver crele.

remember cream is recessive and will look like gold in heterozygous form so the heterozygous cream females will look like gold females at hatch.. Only the boys will look diluted or Silver due to the powerful effect Silver has on males, even on heterozygous form.... to give you an example how powerful Silver is. lets take a look at the gold sex link cross. a RIR is crossed to Delaware hens. the males of this cross will inherit the Silver gene(S/s+) from the Delaware female and the gold gene s+ from RIR. but thats not the Only thing he is inheriting from the RIR. it also inherits its POWERFUL Red enhancers but guess what? they are still looking Silver at hatch. making them easy to spot from the Red enhanced Female cross...

Additionally, couldn't he be both silver and cream?

he could be silver and cream at the same time, but we could not tell the difference at hatch or when fully grown.

So wouldn't it be better to breed him to a regular Wellie and if the chicks are silver then he carries silver and if none are diluted then he is carrying cream and it was passed as a recessive gene? Or am I totally mixed up again?

As for guessing. Sure why not. I'm going to guess he is Silver just cuz.

Thanks for Guessing,