The Legbar Thread!

[Junibutt]

It doesn't really LOL. But we do know there are two different barring genes in our breed and they may play a part in the down colors as well as the adult barring we see later on. So if one parent had the light barring and the other the dark, the chicks could all be different depending on which genes they received. Add in a bit of Autosomal red and some could be cinnamon as well!

Add close breeding and even proper line breeding to the mix and recessive traits that may have been hidden begin to pop out. Sometimes they are desireable, sometimes not so much. For example, my first and second generation of pullets grew in with "mottling" that their mothers did not have. While I thought it was something to be avoided, it ended up being the beginning of proper barring that was lacking in my first hen! Now to the negative, some of this past year's birds had too much melanin, resulting in black tipped breast feathers ( another trait they did not share with their parents). As we all work to hide or eliminate the traits we don't want, and bring forward the traits we do...there will be a multitude of things that pop up, and trial and error through test breeding will help shape our way. HTH

That makes more sense that autosomal factors in addition to sex-linked factors are more at play with the down color. If they were sex-linked factors only, the boys down color would be coming from mom only?

 

[Junibutt]

Yes, I still say Toad is a pullet. The head spot indicator for males is applicable on sex links such as a solid color rooster over a barred hen. The primary indicator on the crested creme legbars is the definition of the markings. The spot is well defined as are the stripes. If you look at the examples given of the mom and dad as chicks, you can see that the male markings are fuzzy and poorly defined, as well as a lighter color overall.

I have 11 males and 6 females here. They are mostly grown now. As they grew out you could always tell the difference between them as the males stayed lighter and the females darker.

One of the traits the breed was developed for is auto-sexing, so if you cannot easily see the difference in the markings, that chick should not be used in a breeding program.

Ok @Regin you have a point as well but has left me all confused. I thought the head spot was a marker for CCLs and a better marker than the eye-liner. I guess we will only find out in 4-6 weeks. I would say judging by how Toad pecked my sons finger when he reached out to get him (less than 48 hrs from the time he was born), he is a boy but lets see and follow-up in a few weeks.

I totally agree that for purposes of auto-sexing such bird should not be part of the breeding program but I am just trying to get to the bottom of genetics at play here. I guess I need to read up more on color genetics before asking random questions

 

[ChicKat]

Update:
Oddly colored *purebred* CL chick

At 5 1/2 weeks



Just keeping her for eggs and not breeding. LOVE her red crest...may have to rename her Lucy

I Love Lucy!

What a brilliant name..... How did she manage that plumage what a clever chick. She's almost a Cinnamon Legbar!!!

 

[KPenley]

That makes more sense that autosomal factors in addition to sex-linked factors are more at play with the down color. If they were sex-linked factors only, the boys down color would be coming from mom only?

I am not always the best at describing genetics, but I'll give it a try (just a reminder though, Autosexing is different from sex links). Short answer, yes.
Solid rooster over barred hen: hen gives Barring to cockerel offspring only, resulting in solid pullets and cockerels with head spots.
Solid (other than white or silver) rooster over silver gene hen: hen gives silver to cockerel offspring only, resulting in pullets the color of the rooster and white/yellow down cockerels.
Barred roosters give all offspring barring (pullets would be complete with 1 dose, cockerels incomplete with only 1 dose of barring). If bred with a solid silver hen, the hen again gives silver to cockerels, resulting in black with white headspot pullets and white/yellow down cockerels.

Now Autosexing is a horse of another color. It is inheritable and will remain intact in pure breeds, unless poorly marked chicks are used over and over again. In Legbars, both parents are barred (B) on top of wild type pattern, so cockerels have 2 doses of barring which should wash their wild type pattern out and pullets have one dose of barring producing clearer stripes. Both chicks can have white headspots, though the male should be significantly larger and brighter than the female since brown wild type has been combined with barring. The original Gold Legbars were selected for large headspots on the cockerels and no headspots on the pullets to make sexing easiest. By the time the Cream Legbar was created, with more breeds added in, and standardized the small spot was ok for pullets.

It is entirely possible that a very clearly striped cockerel is missing a dose of barring from one of his parents, but it's also possible that the down just came out a bit weird because sometimes that happens despite genetic statistics LOL!

 

[enola]

Some one on this site put autosexing/sexlink this way - auto sexing is possible with pure bred breeds. Sex linking is possible when you use the proper purebred chickens from two different BREEDS.

I can't remember who made this statement, so I can't give them credit.............

 

[Junibutt]

I am not always the best at describing genetics, but I'll give it a try (just a reminder though, Autosexing is different from sex links). Short answer, yes.
Solid rooster over barred hen: hen gives Barring to cockerel offspring only, resulting in solid pullets and cockerels with head spots.
Solid (other than white or silver) rooster over silver gene hen: hen gives silver to cockerel offspring only, resulting in pullets the color of the rooster and white/yellow down cockerels.
Barred roosters give all offspring barring (pullets would be complete with 1 dose, cockerels incomplete with only 1 dose of barring). If bred with a solid silver hen, the hen again gives silver to cockerels, resulting in black with white headspot pullets and white/yellow down cockerels.

Now Autosexing is a horse of another color. It is inheritable and will remain intact in pure breeds, unless poorly marked chicks are used over and over again. In Legbars, both parents are barred (B) on top of wild type pattern, so cockerels have 2 doses of barring which should wash their wild type pattern out and pullets have one dose of barring producing clearer stripes. Both chicks can have white headspots, though the male should be significantly larger and brighter than the female since brown wild type has been combined with barring. The original Gold Legbars were selected for large headspots on the cockerels and no headspots on the pullets to make sexing easiest. By the time the Cream Legbar was created, with more breeds added in, and standardized the small spot was ok for pullets.

It is entirely possible that a very clearly striped cockerel is missing a dose of barring from one of his parents, but it's also possible that the down just came out a bit weird because sometimes that happens despite genetic statistics LOL!

Thanks @KPenley , although there was not a confusion between auto-sexing and sex-linked traits in my mind (I may have used the term sex-linked in the wrong context), however your explanation gave me a basic dose of how the barring genes work. Thanks again for that. Now if I can just prove @Regin wrong in 6 weeks Just Kidding!

 

[KPenley]

Thanks @KPenley
 , although there was not a confusion between auto-sexing and sex-linked traits in my mind (I may have used the term sex-linked in the wrong context), however your explanation gave me a basic dose of how the barring genes work. Thanks again for that. Now if I can just prove @Regin
 wrong in 6 weeks Just Kidding!

I just got typing and figured I'd keep going in case anyone else with questions was reading along. I guess I could have stopped with "yes". If Toad is like my little ones, he'll be making himself known in a couple of weeks!

 

[estamets]

My girl from Secret Hills Ranch in CA. She jumped onto my knee and posed perfectly, so I figured I had to share. She's about 8 weeks old.

 

[Junibutt]

I just got typing and figured I'd keep going in case anyone else with questions was reading along. I guess I could have stopped with "yes".

If Toad is like my little ones, he'll be making himself known in a couple of weeks!

As I mentioned in one of my posts, he pecked my son at 24 hrs so I have no doubt its a he.

 

[ochochicas]

As I mentioned in one of my posts, he pecked my son at 24 hrs so I have no doubt its a he.

Yep, I had an hour old chick that was jumping around the broody's nest and landed right in her water dish. He was a bit obnoxious from day one. I knew he was a cockerel from the start...and he is! LOL