The Legbar Thread!

[ChicKat]

Many of the chickens I have are just for eggs, they are of different breeds, just for the variety in chickens and in egg color. And my kids like Silkies so I have some of those for them for "pets".

For my CL I would like to cut the 19 down to about 6 of what I consider my best, 1 male and maybe 5 females, maybe only 4 even. For me Its deciding which females to move forward with the best male that is tough.

You are absolutely right that Less is definitely more.

Sometimes I think that you really only need 1 male and 1 female....LOL - and you are still in the game. ;O)

 

[tobit]

Thank you so much guys, this gives me an idea of what your set ups are like

if you cut down to 1 male (and a back up) how would you keep from inbreeding after time?

 

[ChicKat]

Thank you so much guys, this gives me an idea of what your set ups are like

if you cut down to 1 male (and a back up) how would you keep from inbreeding after time?

I think that one male and one female -- is theoretical. It is considered - 'okay' to breed fathers to daughters...You can be good for a number of generations -- grandfather to granddaughter etc. -- Eventually you would want to get some other 'blood' to keep your flock vital.

Here's one good example:
Line Breeding

This system is called line breeding, which is scientific in-breeding, and may be more readily understood by reference to the chart below. The solid lines in the chart represent the course of the male blood and the dots the female blood lines. Suppose a pure-bred cockerel represented by group 1 to be mated to the pullets in group 2. The progeny of this mating would be represented by group 3.

Breeding chart.

The pullets in this group are mated back to the cock in group 1 and the progeny would appear in group 4 as three-quarters the blood of the sire.

The pullets from group 4, when mated to the cock in group 1, would give progeny in group 6, the chicks in which would be seven-eighths the blood of the sire, or practically pure bred so far as utility requirements go.

The chart is extended to show how other combinations occur. In group 9, produced by crossing a cockerel from group 6 with pullets in group 7, and also in group 13 produced by crossing a cockerel with pullets in group 10, the result is half breeds as in group 3. Group 5 results from crossing a cockerel in group 3 with the hen in group 2. The progeny in that case would be seven-eighths of the blood of the mother instead of the father as in group 6. In group 10, the chicks result from a cross of a cockerel from group 5 with pullets in group 7. The reverse of this is the case in group 8. Groups 11, 12, 14 and 15 explain themselves.


You can find the book excerpt here:
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/ppp/ppp6.html

And they say for the most homogenous line you should line breed.

 

[tobit]

I think that one male and one female -- is theoretical. It is considered - 'okay' to breed fathers to daughters...You can be good for a number of generations -- grandfather to granddaughter etc. -- Eventually you would want to get some other 'blood' to keep your flock vital.

Here's one good example:
Line Breeding

This system is called line breeding, which is scientific in-breeding, and may be more readily understood by reference to the chart below. The solid lines in the chart represent the course of the male blood and the dots the female blood lines. Suppose a pure-bred cockerel represented by group 1 to be mated to the pullets in group 2. The progeny of this mating would be represented by group 3.

Breeding chart.

The pullets in this group are mated back to the cock in group 1 and the progeny would appear in group 4 as three-quarters the blood of the sire.

The pullets from group 4, when mated to the cock in group 1, would give progeny in group 6, the chicks in which would be seven-eighths the blood of the sire, or practically pure bred so far as utility requirements go.

The chart is extended to show how other combinations occur. In group 9, produced by crossing a cockerel from group 6 with pullets in group 7, and also in group 13 produced by crossing a cockerel with pullets in group 10, the result is half breeds as in group 3. Group 5 results from crossing a cockerel in group 3 with the hen in group 2. The progeny in that case would be seven-eighths of the blood of the mother instead of the father as in group 6. In group 10, the chicks result from a cross of a cockerel from group 5 with pullets in group 7. The reverse of this is the case in group 8. Groups 11, 12, 14 and 15 explain themselves.


You can find the book excerpt here:
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/ppp/ppp6.html

And they say for the most homogenous line you should line breed.

Thank you so much! I guess this does make sense, looks like it requires a lot of book keeping and professionalism! I didn't know THIS many coops (7 in your case) were needed to breed just one breed!

 

[ChicKat]

Thank you so much! I guess this does make sense, looks like it requires a lot of book keeping and professionalism! I didn't know THIS many coops (7 in your case) were needed to breed just one breed!

No!! 7 aren't needed..... That is just the way I do it -- so I can keep everyone separate. ;o) . Everyone has their own chicken management approach. Mine is very 'selective' of who is bred to whom. I spent the past decade with registered Beefmaster cattle -- so that has huge influence on my approach. With registered animals, the peidigree is very important - so that is the lens that I look through. Other people not so much. The only others who keep careful track (that I know of ) of their birds are those who breed (not in the USA, of course because it is a felony) - birds to fight.

We used to laugh about eveyone having their own 'magic formulae' for their stock -- some of them are kind of amusing. Mine is know the parents, grandparents -- and now I'm in great-grand parents.

 

[tobit]

No!! 7 aren't needed..... That is just the way I do it -- so I can keep everyone separate. ;o) . Everyone has their own chicken management approach. Mine is very 'selective' of who is bred to whom. I spent the past decade with registered Beefmaster cattle -- so that has huge influence on my approach. With registered animals, the peidigree is very important - so that is the lens that I look through. Other people not so much. The only others who keep careful track (that I know of ) of their birds are those who breed (not in the USA, of course because it is a felony) - birds to fight.

We used to laugh about eveyone having their own 'magic formulae' for their stock -- some of them are kind of amusing. Mine is know the parents, grandparents -- and now I'm in great-grand parents.

Ah I see! I guess the more accurate you can pinpoint who the parents are - the more effective you can breed them, so more coops makes sense!

I would love to breed chickens (why not cream legbars?

) one day but that will have to wait for another 5+ years!

 

[ChicKat]

Ah I see! I guess the more accurate you can pinpoint who the parents are - the more effective you can breed them, so more coops makes sense!

I would love to breed chickens (why not cream legbars?

) one day but that will have to wait for another 5+ years!

Indeed!, why not Cream Legbars. Count down starts -- 4-years, 364-days......tick tock

 

[tobit]

Indeed!, why not Cream Legbars.  Count down starts -- 4-years, 364-days......tick tock

Haha precisely!! As soon as I have the space I will get chickens after uni although a rooster may be tricky livin in a city!

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Just some thoughts on color. I have cream and non-cream legbars. Most folks call the non-cream birds crele but as I was out staring at chicks today I noticed the variety. I have a few pullets from a legbar bred to a basic brown EE and the color/pattern is similar to legbar but I also have some pullets out of a bielefelder bred to the same brown EE and the color is more rich and what I would consider a normal crele. I know pictures would be great with this post but just thought I'd share my observation. The 'easter-felder' pullets will be bred to a male from a legbar bred to my autosexing EE's in the spring so it will be interesting to see if the light crele of the legbars passes on.

 

[ChicKat]

Just some thoughts on color. I have cream and non-cream legbars. Most folks call the non-cream birds crele but as I was out staring at chicks today I noticed the variety. I have a few pullets from a legbar bred to a basic brown EE and the color/pattern is similar to legbar but I also have some pullets out of a bielefelder bred to the same brown EE and the color is more rich and what I would consider a normal crele. I know pictures would be great with this post but just thought I'd share my observation. The 'easter-felder' pullets will be bred to a male from a legbar bred to my autosexing EE's in the spring so it will be interesting to see if the light crele of the legbars passes on.

This is really interesting to me -- and timely. ;O) --- to add to the confusion all Cream Legbars are actually Crele if we go by the crele = Wild type + barring definition of David Scriviner. (hope I spelled his name correctly the book isn't at hand. ) -- so a Cream Legbar is a CreamCrele, and a crele game is a Red-Crele (the really dark ones that are usually called Crele)--- is what you're seeing very light -- So a 'crele' Cream Legbar is lighter than the Crele Easter-felder - in a noticable way -- but is that the same as the crele in game birds?

Random old english game from the internet: