The Legbar Thread!

[HaHaUthinkso]

Hi nicalandia,

I think you are just reinforcing hahaUthinkso's point that the only contribution from the BPR was the barring gene. It wouldn't have mattered which barred bird got used to contribute this gene.

Haha yep !!!

 

[nicalandia]

No the Legbars are Barred Brown Leghorns as described by the Autosexing Association.

.

Crele leghorns have been int he UK before Legbars too

 

[HaHaUthinkso]

Crele leghorns have been int he UK before Legbars too

But its all about autosexing and the work that was done by 1 guy to achieve that without whom we would not be here talking.

I am sure you, Henk, Hengen and anyone else genetically minded would do it differently but you wernt there and the Legbar is here

 

[vlhavens]

Well, the barred rock in the lineage of the Legbar lays brown eggs. If one wanted to produce a blue egg laying breed, why would they cross the blue egg gene with a brown egg gene bird? That cross could only compromise the quality and consistency of blue eggs laid. Even if the specimen and it's offspring were recrossed with white egg laying birds for several generations, the potential for brown egg gene leakage could continue for numerous generations. If they did not necessarily want to create a blue egg laying breed, why introduce the blue egg gene into the Legbar gene pool at all? Unless, as is suggested down the thread, that they were simply playing -my translation-.
If there were already barred Leghorns in the U.K. quite before the geneticist's experiments, there may have already been an effort to clean some of the brown from the egg. However, Punnet and Pease may not have been so familiar with poultry as to know all the breeds available. However, I'm vexed that the CLB was not developed to lay, at least, as blue an egg as the average Americana. The ger
mane question of my interest is, how can the blue be intensified, at this time, in the CLB egg?

 

[dretd]

Quote:

you mentioned that Punnett went about creating the Barred elghorn to later create the Legbars, well guest what? the Barred/cuckoo Leghorns were introduced in the UK way back in 1880s and by 1910 they were as nicely marked as Barred Rocks so I am still wondering why was the barred rocked used at all

Nicalandia--thanks for the link, it was a nice read!

The link is an excerpt from a book by C A House published in 1927. In it he alludes to the Cuckoo Leghorn having inconsistent availability since their introduction on 1884 "...Barred Plymouth Rocks maintain their popularity, and never get left stranded high and dry as the Cuckoo Leghorn on several occasions". He also talks about the quality/crispness of the barring in the Barred Rock , "about 1906 and 1907 the birds advanced more towards the Plymouth Rock character of marking, and became more distinct in their barring, although never approaching the clean cut barring of the Rock"

Punnett also was actively doing experimentation on Barred Rocks and Gold Barred Rocks at least as early as 1923, referred to here in this paper http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jgenet/19/337.pdf

By reading this, I am going to stick with my guess that the Barred Rock was easier for Punnett to obtain for study and he probably already had a flock in his lab, and perhaps, not knowing if the genes were identical with the cuckoo/more blurred barring, he opted for a breed with the clearest/crispest barring available at the time. Just an educated guess.

 

[dretd]

Well, the barred rock in the lineage of the Legbar lays brown eggs. If one wanted to produce a blue egg laying breed, why would they cross the blue egg gene with a brown egg gene bird? That cross could only compromise the quality and consistency of blue eggs laid. Even if the specimen and it's offspring were recrossed with white egg laying birds for several generations, the potential for brown egg gene leakage could continue for numerous generations. If they did not necessarily want to create a blue egg laying breed, why introduce the blue egg gene into the Legbar gene pool at all? Unless, as is suggested down the thread, that they were simply playing -my translation-.
If there were already barred Leghorns in the U.K. quite before the geneticist's experiments, there may have already been an effort to clean some of the brown from the egg. However, Punnet and Pease may not have been so familiar with poultry as to know all the breeds available. However, I'm vexed that the CLB was not developed to lay, at least, as blue an egg as the average Americana. The ger
mane question of my interest is, how can the blue be intensified, at this time, in the CLB egg?

If you are interested in Punnett and his research, here is a paper he published on the blue egg gene complete with colored plates: http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jgenet/27/465.pdf

And to answer your question about color intensification--that is a question for the ages. The Leghorn may have color modifiers that make the egg more white since that is the goal fo the Leghorn breeders. Would they mess with the blue egg color or just the brown--I have no idea.

Punnett refers to other colors of eggs from other flocks of South American chickens. Remember that the bird that was in Britain may or may not have been closely related to the one that was used as the basis of the Ameraucana and Araucana in America. There is a definite introduced bias from Ameraucana folks since that is what we know. For instance the supposition that the pea comb and blue egg gene must be present together. The Cream Legbar demonstrates that is not always the case and that the chicken brought over to England may have had a single comb from the start. There may or may not be other factors going in to the seemingly more pastel colored blue/green of the Cream Legbars eggs when comparing it to the Ameraucana and Araucana.

 

[HaHaUthinkso]

Well, the barred rock in the lineage of the Legbar lays brown eggs. If one wanted to produce a blue egg laying breed, why would they cross the blue egg gene with a brown egg gene bird? That cross could only compromise the quality and consistency of blue eggs laid. Even if the specimen and it's offspring were recrossed with white egg laying birds for several generations, the potential for brown egg gene leakage could continue for numerous generations. If they did not necessarily want to create a blue egg laying breed, why introduce the blue egg gene into the Legbar gene pool at all? Unless, as is suggested down the thread, that they were simply playing -my translation-.
If there were already barred Leghorns in the U.K. quite before the geneticist's experiments, there may have already been an effort to clean some of the brown from the egg. However, Punnet and Pease may not have been so familiar with poultry as to know all the breeds available. However, I'm vexed that the CLB was not developed to lay, at least, as blue an egg as the average Americana. The ger
mane question of my interest is, how can the blue be intensified, at this time, in the CLB egg?

Legbar lays a white egg

The original CLB standard states egg color BLUE nothing else - My guess the variations now seen are the result of crossings that have gone on.

 

[vlhavens]

My use of the term creaming was casually of double reference. One to the lightening/-silvering?- of the former gold coloring, along with the intensity of blue egg that should accompany the suppression of brown/gold associated with brown egg laying breeds. Some say these "other" Legbar versions lay white eggs. That's a difficult achievement coming from the brown egg laying barred rock in only 5 generations, isn't it?

 

[nicalandia]

Nicalandia--thanks for the link, it was a nice read!


By reading this, I am going to stick with my guess that the Barred Rock was easier for Punnett to obtain for study and he probably already had a flock in his lab, .

I agree,

 

[vlhavens]

Since the blue eggs distinguishes the CLB as much as any other feature, wouldn't it be a healthier breed if the silver and gold were crossed from time to time, as long as the gold did not feature tinted eggs?