The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[loanwizard]

Quote: Leah's Mom,

I am not married, but Carla IS a saint, unfortunately I will not share that information with her as I want her to be able to fit her head through the door....

Those little piggies are worth $100.00 as feeders or FFA projects, $300.00 as breeders, or $800.00 if sold 1/2- whole, or $1500.00 if sold in a freezer fill program that I am setting up.

Right now, they're just dang adorable!

 

[Sally8]

Sally8

I saw it when we were trying to figure out how to process. Most articles and the UTube video we watched said the hot soapy water would remove the feathers better?? It really helped clean up the chicken and remove the feathers.
I really tried to use everypart of the chicken and tried not to waste anything. Using hot soapy water really cleaned up the feet also that will be used in my stock. I'm not saying this is the right way to do it, it was our first attempt.

I think ex (minus the D) H's reason for having me wash them with a little soapy hot water was because 25 yr ago, chickens came into grocery stores whole and then the meat cutters would cut them up. He said that those chickens touched so many surfaces. Now, they come in already cut up and quite often already packaged. But, I don't know anyone that eats their chicken rare or med rare. Glad you asked. I am always interested in what others think.

 

[Kassaundra]

Leahsmom, more enjoyable for sure, just when you think you've caught up you turn around and there are 2 new pages! lol


I went all out year before last and built the recyclers version of the biopod for growing bsf, but didn't have any success except growing them in my dubia bin in my water container for the dubias.

so this time it is ultra simple, I won't be harvesting them at all they will do thier little bsf thing and crawl out of the buckets on thier own end up on the ground where some will find shelter before the girls wake and find them others will be breakfast.

I mostly buried a 5 gall bucket, filled it 2/3 full of dry veggie matter (the runner grass roots I dig from my garden) then topped w/ fresh chicken poop, then took a basket w/ holes in the sides and turned it over top of the buckets. here is my reasoning ............... buried buckets will stay cooler in the summer (also located in more shady areas for that same purpose), the inverted baskets will provide shade, shelter keep most of the rain out, and protection so the chickens won't eat them to early, the holes in the sides provide good access for the female bsf to lay eggs. If I get real energetic I may secure some cardboard inside the basket over the bucket of poop for egg laying, but they seem to lay eggs fine in other locations that do not have the cardboard so we'll see about that. I do not know if this will work any better then a couple of years ago, but I have no money invested in this project it is all stuff I already had around left over from other projects.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Leahsmom, more enjoyable for sure, just when you think you've caught up you turn around and there are 2 new pages! lol


I went all out year before last and built the recyclers version of the biopod for growing bsf, but didn't have any success except growing them in my dubia bin in my water container for the dubias.

so this time it is ultra simple, I won't be harvesting them at all they will do thier little bsf thing and crawl out of the buckets on thier own end up on the ground where some will find shelter before the girls wake and find them others will be breakfast.

I mostly buried a 5 gall bucket, filled it 2/3 full of dry veggie matter (the runner grass roots I dig from my garden) then topped w/ fresh chicken poop, then took a basket w/ holes in the sides and turned it over top of the buckets. here is my reasoning ............... buried buckets will stay cooler in the summer (also located in more shady areas for that same purpose), the inverted baskets will provide shade, shelter keep most of the rain out, and protection so the chickens won't eat them to early, the holes in the sides provide good access for the female bsf to lay eggs. If I get real energetic I may secure some cardboard inside the basket over the bucket of poop for egg laying, but they seem to lay eggs fine in other locations that do not have the cardboard so we'll see about that. I do not know if this will work any better then a couple of years ago, but I have no money invested in this project it is all stuff I already had around left over from other projects.

 

[Kassaundra]

I think it probably was more user error then anything else, I am not good at anything that needs constant putzing with it or a good grasp of time passage (knowing how long it has been since xyz was last done and when it is next due) I live in my own little time warp w/o much concept as to how real time passes!!!! lol lol lol

 

[aoxa]

Me too!!!!! Have you ever tried Romaine lettuce leaves as a bun? Works pretty well when you're avoiding your fiance's gluten free bread

Yes sounds good to me as well

I know this is all about chickens, but I thought you might enjoy a respite and see the Loinwizard in action, live from New York.... then I found out some podunk farmer had dubbed my fine production with piglets.... anyhow... here it is....

Very cute video! Only six babies? I thought the average # is much higher, but six is very manageable for mama - who looks tired and ready for a nap

I am a little embarrassed to admit big pigs kind of scare me. One bit Susan's breast while we were visiting our friend Helen. Not even kidding. I broke down laughing, but I don't want that to happen to me.. We're going to start with smaller pigs and work our ways up to one big pig like this for meat. Can you raise a single pig?

I just read a post about butchering that said a little soap in the water helps the water get right down to the skin

Cute little piggys LW!


And for all the weather watchers out there: we are currently experiencing 70 mile an hour winds, with breaks of 35 to 40 mph. We live in th desert. With lots and lots of dirt. When I went to pick up my son from kindergarten, I literally could not see the other stop signs at the intersection I was at. The kids' school is 2 miles away and I crawled all the way there because the visibility is like, zero.

All the chickens are inside, they don't want to brave the winds either! The babies venture out and then quickly dash back inside. Good thing all the runs are enclosed or we'd be chasing chickens down the street!

I always thought the soap was to stop the smell. We didn't use any. I just held my nose. I did not like the smell of the dunking birds.

 

[bluebirdnanny]

Beautiful property! Research raccoon control cause you will need it with that river in the front yard.

Yep. I have wetlands behind me and spring hole where water bubbles up from the bottom and feeds downhill. So many racoons. You might also need to watch for mink, and martins and fishers. They can be bad too.

Great piggy video, Loin!

BlueMouse - your property is beautiful!

There is a new thing up for those who are interested in prolapsed vent issues in hens. Big "Thanks" to Delisha for the great article and to armorfirelady for most of the photos used!

Oh yes thanks for this information. I will save it for if I ever need it.

I can't help you as we normally skin ours, but my question is (and I'm not judging but really don't know) Are we supposed to use soapy water? My ex (not D) H was a butcher for a food store and said we should always wash chicken with a little soap, as it was full of bacteria. I had never heard that before or since.

Ewwww. But I do remember the old farmer that lived around the corner from here when I was in High school. Had me come help one day to see how he did his. I had to catch one... he snapped the neck and plopped them on a wood stump and came down with the hatched... he laughed as my chin dropped and I screamed (17 years old) as the first headless body actually ran letting blood spirt up all over. My next job was to retreive the body for him and he dunked and wiped off feathers. Then wife gutted and cleaned the chicken and put in water in this big refrigerator. I didn't know they would run with no head!!! He said was most humane.... quick snap of neck and hatchet in one movement. He said the weight of body holds it down but if you tried by holding body it could move its' head and you might miss or just hurt it. You want it quick... let it bleed out then quickly process it. But to do this myself I'll have to see. If I can remember the little details then. And judging from my attempt to catch 'baldy' to put bag balm on the neck and crest I may have an issue with the first part of the process!!!!!

 

[aoxa]

Yep. I have wetlands behind me and spring hole where water bubbles up from the bottom and feeds downhill. So many racoons. You might also need to watch for mink, and martins and fishers. They can be bad too.
Oh yes thanks for this information. I will save it for if I ever need it.
Ewwww. But I do remember the old farmer that lived around the corner from here when I was in High school. Had me come help one day to see how he did his. I had to catch one... he snapped the neck and plopped them on a wood stump and came down with the hatched... he laughed as my chin dropped and I screamed (17 years old) as the first headless body actually ran letting blood spirt up all over. My next job was to retreive the body for him and he dunked and wiped off feathers. Then wife gutted and cleaned the chicken and put in water in this big refrigerator. I didn't know they would run with no head!!! He said was most humane.... quick snap of neck and hatchet in one movement. He said the weight of body holds it down but if you tried by holding body it could move its' head and you might miss or just hurt it. You want it quick... let it bleed out then quickly process it. But to do this myself I'll have to see. If I can remember the little details then. And judging from my attempt to catch 'baldy' to put bag balm on the neck and crest I may have an issue with the first part of the process!!!!!

To break a neck properly you need to know what you're doing. I tried it with a chick and did not do it right, even though I was sure I did. With chicks I cut the head right off with a knife - scissors work too if they are good scissors. With full grown chickens I find the least stressful on the chicken is cutting the jugular. I've tried the hatchet. I wish I was a better aim, but I'm terrible. I can't even chop kindling for the fire. :S

I think there are all kinds of ways to butcher a chicken, and I say go for whatever way you feel is the most humane for your situation. If you can get the head off with one go with a hatchet, I think that's great -but I can not. Also - the birds running around with their head cut off is really bad for the meat.

 

[loanwizard]

Quote: Ahhhh.... busted! And so quickly I might add.

This is our very first litter. We always bought feeders before. For the delicate ones here, I omitted that she actually had 10, that I know of.

A couple of technical points. I don't raise the way most do. I should have had all the pigs separated by now, and a creep installed for the newborns. It gets uglier. When I saw that she was having them and I was unprepared, I called Carla, who also gave me double type instructions.... and the upshot is, mama got nervous, got up, and stepped on one, that we had to put down.

Another point is that a good sow should have a minimum of 10. I hand picked this one because she has 14 nipples and is long. Technically, if her next litter does not produce 12 or more piglets, she should be destined for sausage. We will see about that.

I am rolling my eyes, laughing and maybe somewhat jealous of the boob biting pig....

I am not sure that I understand starting with smaller pigs. Realize that this mama is only 9 months 3 weeks and 3... ok 5 days old.... They go from zero to 225 in about 6 months, like a Ferrari!

I will say, if you work with, talk to and pet every day like some of you do your chickens... pigs are extremely friendly. I won't tell you how I know that. I lost that when I got the automatic feeder this winter and didn't see them for a week at a time except to walk by and collect eggs.

Believe me, I can hand feed these pigs. I can't pet them anymore, but will work on that this summer, or.... put them to sausage and work with these youngsters. Be sweet or be meat!

 

[cywiar merch]

On flax seed...

Now this is just MY thing...no one else in the world may agree and, who knows, I may change my mind sometime in the future. But for now, based on the info I have...

One of the reasons I like to avoid some items is the higher level of phyto-estrogens/isoflovones/genistein (in legumes, flax, etc.) and xeno-estrogens (not sure I spelled that correctly but they are the "synthetic" estrogens that are found in plastics - including vinyl siding - and other chemical items in our environment that we are exposed to daily in much higher levels than at any other time in history.)

Since we are so over-exposed to estrogens at this time in history due to so many synthetics that we live with and don't even realize, I try to minimize my - and my animals - exposure to more estrogens.

Soy, legumes in general-including clover, flax...all are high in phyto-estrogens.

Studies have shown that one of the reasons we have so many more "female issues" and male reproductive issues at this time in history than in prior times is estrogen-overload. Not only reproductive issues, but the hormone balance in general can be in a state of havoc also.

It also affects the reproductive health in our animals as well as their meat, eggs, and milk have higher levels of the hormones which we then ingest. This even includes "supressing" the immune system, endocrine issues...and it goes on and on.

Legume hay (soy, alfalfa, clover, etc.) also has this potential so when I get hay, I specify GRASS HAY rather than legume hay.

Here are a few things that may be interesting to skim through:

This one mentions the affects on animals. This particular list is referring to the isoflovones, genistein (mostly in soy) but other sources as well:

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy-ale...pdHkiO2k6NDtzOjE1OiJlc3Ryb2dlbml6YXRpb24iO30=


General estrogen article
http://www.westonaprice.org/womens-...pdHkiO2k6NDtzOjE1OiJlc3Ryb2dlbml6YXRpb24iO30=

Effects on men:
http://www.westonaprice.org/soy-ale...pdHkiO2k6NDtzOjE1OiJlc3Ryb2dlbml6YXRpb24iO30=


Endocrine disruption and man-made chemicals:
http://www.westonaprice.org/environ...pdHkiO2k6NDtzOjE1OiJlc3Ryb2dlbml6YXRpb24iO30=


It goes on and on.......

Here is a whole list of articles regarding estrogens - both plant and synthetic. You can choose which title interests you:

http://www.westonaprice.org/search/search?q=estrogen

On flax seed...

Now this is just MY thing...no one else in the world may agree and, who knows, I may change my mind sometime in the future. But for now, based on the info I have...

One of the reasons I like to avoid some items is the higher level of phyto-estrogens/isoflovones/genistein (in legumes, flax, etc.) and xeno-estrogens (not sure I spelled that correctly but they are the "synthetic" estrogens that are found in plastics - including vinyl siding - and other chemical items in our environment that we are exposed to daily in much higher levels than at any other time in history.)

Since we are so over-exposed to estrogens at this time in history due to so many synthetics that we live with and don't even realize, I try to minimize my - and my animals - exposure to more estrogens.

Soy, legumes in general-including clover, flax...all are high in phyto-estrogens.

Studies have shown that one of the reasons we have so many more "female issues" and male reproductive issues at this time in history than in prior times is estrogen-overload. Not only reproductive issues, but the hormone balance in general can be in a state of havoc also.

It also affects the reproductive health in our animals as well as their meat, eggs, and milk have higher levels of the hormones which we then ingest. This even includes "supressing" the immune system, endocrine issues...and it goes on and on.

Legume hay (soy, alfalfa, clover, etc.) also has this potential so when I get hay, I specify GRASS HAY rather than legume hay.

Here are a few things that may be interesting to skim through:

This one mentions the affects on animals. This particular list is referring to the isoflovones, genistein (mostly in soy) but other sources as well:

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy-ale...pdHkiO2k6NDtzOjE1OiJlc3Ryb2dlbml6YXRpb24iO30=


General estrogen article
http://www.westonaprice.org/womens-...pdHkiO2k6NDtzOjE1OiJlc3Ryb2dlbml6YXRpb24iO30=

Effects on men:
http://www.westonaprice.org/soy-ale...pdHkiO2k6NDtzOjE1OiJlc3Ryb2dlbml6YXRpb24iO30=


Endocrine disruption and man-made chemicals:
http://www.westonaprice.org/environ...pdHkiO2k6NDtzOjE1OiJlc3Ryb2dlbml6YXRpb24iO30=


It goes on and on.......

Here is a whole list of articles regarding estrogens - both plant and synthetic. You can choose which title interests you:

http://www.westonaprice.org/search/search?q=estrogen

Thanks for this. some of these issues have been things I have been thnking of and done a bit of reading on due to some health issues but thse links are very informative and has given me some food for thought.