The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[aoxa]

So I have a question for the group. A friend of mine found one of her hens dead in the coop a few days ago... She took the body to the UC Davis for an autopsy and they came back with obese chicken which made for fatty liver disease??


The chicken was obese and the liver was very friable and fatty. This led to the rupture of the liver which led to the acute death due to internal bleeding. The ovary is usually active, at least in the early stages, and the metabolic and physical stress associated with oviposition (laying eggs) may be factors that induce the fatal hemorrhage. In older birds diet should be closely monitored so that they do not get obese.

They will do parasite screening and get back to her with the results but for now she is worried that she fed her too much BOSS (not sure how much) or too many mealworms or just treats in general? Couldn't this hen just have been genetically predisposed to being fat?? But it does raise the question how much is too much BOSS?? and how do you tell if your hens are obese??

How much activity did these hens get?

I've had a few chubby girls, and they were really chubby... A lot of that IS breed predisposition, but also individual personalities (ie: they did not range like the others). This is one of the reasons I will not do Buff Orps again. My cochins were similar... The FF really helped the cochins thin out to a healthy weight. I did not overfeed when I did FF.. I let them consume it all before adding more. Prior to that I free fed.

Maybe free feeding isn't a good idea for your friend. Limit BOSS and any fatty leftovers (like pasta, bread, etc). Veggies should still be provided if available.

 

[Leahs Mom]

So I have a question for the group. A friend of mine found one of her hens dead in the coop a few days ago... She took the body to the UC Davis for an autopsy and they came back with obese chicken which made for fatty liver disease??


The chicken was obese and the liver was very friable and fatty. This led to the rupture of the liver which led to the acute death due to internal bleeding. The ovary is usually active, at least in the early stages, and the metabolic and physical stress associated with oviposition (laying eggs) may be factors that induce the fatal hemorrhage. In older birds diet should be closely monitored so that they do not get obese.

They will do parasite screening and get back to her with the results but for now she is worried that she fed her too much BOSS (not sure how much) or too many mealworms or just treats in general? Couldn't this hen just have been genetically predisposed to being fat?? But it does raise the question how much is too much BOSS?? and how do you tell if your hens are obese??

Most of the current research on fatty liver disease has found that VEGETABLE OILS (PUFAs: Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids) and CARBOHYDRATES (sugars) - and especially fructose which is metabolized in the LIVER combine to cause those issues. When eating fats and protein from animal sources, and in moderation coconut oil, there weren't the same issues.

Subsisting on a diet of mostly "vegetable proteins" (read: grains, legumes, seeds) seems to make the problem worse. Corn, especially, is a HUGE issue relating to fatty liver disease.

This is one of the reasons it's so important to get those kiddos out eating from the land - bugs, toads, snakes, fresh greens, etc., or to supplement with animal protein as much as you can afford.

You can see why fatty liver would be so prevalent based on the grain, legume and vegetable oil diets we feed many animals (and ourselves!). (They've done several studies on how grain based feed effects dogs and this is one of them!)

There is quite a bit of information you could read on that. I could probably come up with some links if you'd like

 

[countrygirl74]

Thanks for giving me some feedback on the roosters...

I think I will try to re-home the red silkie, keep the blue cochin (I also think the feathering is awesome!), and I am still deciding on whether or not to keep the blue silkie or EE. We love our EE but I am wondering if it would be better to keep a small roo with the cochin... hmmm - it also depends on who I can re-home easier I guess too.

 

[Leahs Mom]

PS: What i wrote about FLD is VERY SIMPLIFIED... There is a lof of info and didn't want to dump too much!

"including egg yolks, liver, other organ meats, and spinach in the diet, as well as avoiding polyunsaturated oils and refined foods—especially sugar" is a good start!

Also seems that deficiency in choline and methionine combined with the other issues is huge. Egg yolks, liver organ meats can help this.

TABLE 1. Choline in Selected Foods
Data taken from the USDA Database for Choline Content of Common Foods.USDA Chart
Food Choline (mg/100 g) Food Choline (mg/100 g)

Egg yolk, raw 682 Pistachios 72
Beef liver, pan-fried 418 Chicken, roasted 66
Chicken liver, pan-fried 309 Salmon, dry heat 65
Whole egg, raw 251 Cashews 61
Turkey Heart, simmered 173 Pine nuts 56
Wheat germ 152 Almonds 52
Bacon, pan-fried 131 Macadamia nuts 45
Mutton, roasted 100 Brussels sprouts, boiled 41
Turkey gizzard, simmered 82 Pecans 41
Shrimp, canned 81 Broccoli, boiled 40
Hamburger, broiled 81 Cauliflower, boiled 39

 

[aaggjg]

PS: What i wrote about FLD is VERY SIMPLIFIED... There is a lof of info and didn't want to dump too much!

"including egg yolks, liver, other organ meats, and spinach in the diet, as well as avoiding polyunsaturated oils and refined foods—especially sugar" is a good start!

Also seems that deficiency in choline and methionine combined with the other issues is huge. Egg yolks, liver organ meats can help this.

TABLE 1. Choline in Selected Foods
Data taken from the USDA Database for Choline Content of Common Foods.USDA Chart
Food Choline (mg/100 g) Food Choline (mg/100 g)

Egg yolk, raw 682 Pistachios 72
Beef liver, pan-fried 418 Chicken, roasted 66
Chicken liver, pan-fried 309 Salmon, dry heat 65
Whole egg, raw 251 Cashews 61
Turkey Heart, simmered 173 Pine nuts 56
Wheat germ 152 Almonds 52
Bacon, pan-fried 131 Macadamia nuts 45
Mutton, roasted 100 Brussels sprouts, boiled 41
Turkey gizzard, simmered 82 Pecans 41
Shrimp, canned 81 Broccoli, boiled 40
Hamburger, broiled 81 Cauliflower, boiled 39

Wow great info LM!! Thank you. I'd love to get some of those links to read more about it!

 

[aaggjg]

How much activity did these hens get?

I've had a few chubby girls, and they were really chubby... A lot of that IS breed predisposition, but also individual personalities (ie: they did not range like the others). This is one of the reasons I will not do Buff Orps again. My cochins were similar... The FF really helped the cochins thin out to a healthy weight. I did not overfeed when I did FF.. I let them consume it all before adding more. Prior to that I free fed.

Maybe free feeding isn't a good idea for your friend. Limit BOSS and any fatty leftovers (like pasta, bread, etc). Veggies should still be provided if available.

She had 5 hens in a small backyard .... they spend most of their days free ranging in her yard but as I said it is not that big. She fermented their feed and mixed her own as she was worried about commercial blended feed... she gave them BOSS & meal worms to get them back in the coop etc etc .... She has put all remaining hens on a diet

 

[Leahs Mom]

The more I hear about the Buff Orps, the more I think I resemble one

 

[countrygirl74]

You and me both!

 

[aoxa]

You and me both!

Here here!!

 

[aoxa]

Thanks for giving me some feedback on the roosters...

I think I will try to re-home the red silkie, keep the blue cochin (I also think the feathering is awesome!), and I am still deciding on whether or not to keep the blue silkie or EE. We love our EE but I am wondering if it would be better to keep a small roo with the cochin... hmmm - it also depends on who I can re-home easier I guess too.

You will probably have a much easier time rehoming the blue silkie