The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[zinia8]

Mumsy and Trav sorry for your loses.
Mumsy thank you for the pictures. It has proven to be a learning expierence for everyone.
My property was once a lumber yard and I am amazed at the stuff the chooks find.

 

[countrygirl74]

I haven't. I think Kassaundra from BYC here makes it. Seems that she posted info on it somewhere but I don't know where now. I read about it just a bit then got busy with too much work and the "cares of this life" and never got back to it.

LM have you tried the lactobacillus inoculant that makes from rice wash & milk I think??? Someone was just telling me about this the other day. They too are big fans of his.

Here's a great detailed video on how to do it. I have a batch I made a while back in a big glass jug in my fridge. My chicken coop has NEVER smelled like ammonia BUT my ducks have!! They get everything so wet and I noticed one day that their wet deep litter smelled like ammonia. I mixed some in a spray bottle and sprayed it all down and haven't had the ammonia smell since. I am guessing I will need it again - probably especially as summer comes along. I am going to use it in the coop to help break down the bad stuff in the deep litter and hopefully keep it from smelling. Plus, it's good for the ducks!

 

[countrygirl74]

Lots of amazing information today! I never had even thought about birds and lead poisoning... just so sorry about the loss...

Yes I have seen my birds eat chipped paint at my old house.. my garage was 100 years old.. Thinking back.. I lost all of my first group of birds in that location.. Similar wasting away symptoms.. This was before I ever culled a bird and before I knew what I do now.. maybe it was lead poisoning as well...

I learned a lot today thanks to your posts Mumsy! Thank you!

PS: Margaret lost her toes last night

She's one funky little girl. Stubby hehe.. She is feisty with the babies. Good thing she can't run as fast as them, or they'd be a whole lot more picked on than they are. She wants to be head hen, and I admire that. She will be just fine. A little weird, but fine.

Yay for Margaret! Is she walking a lot better without them?

 

[delisha]

LET'S TALK ABOUT PREVENTION....

So that we know what we're dealing with here, and to prevent this from happening to our birds....If it was, indeed, lead poising:

What are the ways a bird could have gotten lead poisoning?

-Old metal feed pans that have lead?

-Feeding from ceramic pans/bowls/crocks that contain lead and sloughs off into the feed? (All ceramic made right up to the 2000's, including the stoneware dishes and crock pots have lead in them and it comes to the surface and gets into your food. Unless ceramic is marked lead-free when you purchase it, DON'T BUY IT. DON'T EAT FROM IT, COOK IN IT, OR FEED IN IT.)

-Old paint in the seller's coop/barn?

-What else?

lead shot...fishing weights and fishing equipment are probably the biggest culprits in aquatics and birds. Old barns have all kinds of interesting things tucked away that chickens find.

Could a person have a chicken tested for lead by their local or state extension agent? Is this a common occurance?

Necropsy in your own kitchen works too and yes..most state agents and extensions do them for free...Lead poisoning is way too common and can be avoided.

Quote: x2 funny girl!!

Quote: Yeah Margaret..I bet you feel so much better. I bet she looks so much better.

So sorry for your loss Mumsy. Lead poisoning sounds truly likely. Especially if the breeder isnt up on animal husbandry.

Lead poisoning can happen to the best of us.

Quote: OMG..what wonderful news!!!

Del, can lead poisoning be vertical? meaning can hatching eggs have it from birds that have been exposed to lead?

Yes..it happens in humans too

Mumsy and Trav sorry for your loses.
Mumsy thank you for the pictures. It has proven to be a learning expierence for everyone.
My property was once a lumber yard and I am amazed at the stuff the chooks find.

I can bet you have all kinds of things for them to discover..

 

[Mumsy]

My soil has been tested, no lead. I do think it is the breeders barn that would be the source.

My home was built on virgin forest land forty years ago. It's been home to three families with children and pets and gardens and orchards in that time. My barn is unpainted. My old windows are covered with plastic and have no chipping paint. My chickens can't get access to the car port or garage where likely auto contaimination would be. So I am certain the lead source is not here.

I won't bash the breeder where you and I got our birds. I do not think she knew her chicks were exposed. I think the lead source was accidental and very possibly her barn as you think. I never visited the farm like you did.
She is an elderly woman held in high esteem in Silkie circles. She has been a breeder longer than anyone I can remember. I believe she is probably suffering losses too and may not know what it is. I will send her an email or letter and explain what I believe killed my pullet. What ever her reaction is or is not, will not make me feel any different. Young birds have died. All bought the same month by at least three different people from the same breeder. All hatched within a few months of each other that I know of.


I almost didn't post the necropsy pictures today. I really didn't want to deal with it because it hurt me so much. I also didn't want it to turn into an "Ewwww! Silkies are gross! How could anyone eat them!" sort of thing. I eat Silkies. I also eat purple carrots and purple potatoes. Big deal. Looks different, taste the same.

But...Trav and I and another we know need answers. Our hopes were dashed with the death of the chicks we lost. We thought we were doing everything the right way and then something completely unexpected took their lives. I'm not a Pollyanna. I know stuff happens with livestock and we all eventually lose animals to death. I just really hate it to be something like lead poisoning. Ironic?

 

[delisha]

I use ceramic to feed my birds..i have some of the same original old crock dishes i had 35 years ago. I am considering changing. I have not had any deaths to lead poison. That bright green..enlarged gizzard, shrunken crop are all classic signs of lead poison. i have never seen it in all of my butchering of my birds. I have seen it in butchering out wild duck during duck hunting season. My father showed me. He was a big hunter.

Just because this bird looks like lead poison, it has not been examined or tested by specialists. This is just my conclusion by looking at the photos, I am no expert. It is just my opinion and that does not make it lead poison..

 

[Sally8]

Mumsy, 'm so sorry. I mean't no disrespect. I've never seen a Silkie before. I've said before, I know nothing about them. Please forgive me. sue

 

[Mumsy]

I use ceramic to feed my birds..i have some of the same original old crock dishes i had 35 years ago. I am considering changing. I have not had any deaths to lead poison. That bright green..enlarged gizzard, shrunken crop are all classic signs of lead poison. i have never seen it in all of my butchering of my birds. I have seen it in butchering out wild duck during duck hunting season. My father showed me. He was a big hunter.

Just because this bird looks like lead poison, it has not been examined or tested by specialists. This is just my conclusion by looking at the photos, I am no expert. It is just my opinion and that does not make it lead poison..

Besides the necropsy pictures I also would list here the pullets first symptoms:
From bringing her home at three and a half months old until today.

Failure to thrive
Failure to mature in a timely manner
Wasting/sharp keel/light weight
Peckish appetite/never having a full crop
Great thirst
Lack of activity

In the last few weeks

Pale green soft feces
Head spasms
Jerky movement
Pecking the air
Blindness but non cloudy eyes
Stopped standing or walking normally. Just sitting with both feet forward
Losing balance easily

Last two days

Stopped standing or walking
Stopped eating but drinking more

Last day

When held, body limp and wings dropped
Head down
Not eating or drinking
Death seemed imminent

 

[Mumsy]

Mumsy, 'm so sorry. I mean't no disrespect. I've never seen a Silkie before. I've said before, I know nothing about them. Please forgive me. sue

Oh...I know you didn't mean it to hurt me Sally. It's just one of those things I have heard once too often and today I just couldn't deal. We are good.

 

[OffGridMAMA]

Its raining its pouring (in NE San Diego county).... and I can't sleep. So here are pics of my new silver penciled rock chicks about a week old, thanks to my local byc friend La Palma Chicks... they are soo cute and getting along fine with the cochins and buff orp babies