The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[Mumsy]

It's amazing how people see farm animals. I'm guessing that not many people raise turkeys. I only have the 1 pair and to be honest I don't see a big purpose other than eating. Once you make them such a pet, it's hard to eat. I've been trying to give them away. They are friendlier than a chicken, more inquisitive and eat a lot more.

I'm not against this at all. You all saw where I put Frontline on my mite infested hens, so....Other than it being an OT remedy, how is Kerosene or even Shaklee products natural? Please remember that I only asking not judging as I would also use if needed. Last summer was a bad summer here for worms. One of my INDOOR cats coughed up a fully intact tapeworm. It was amazing. Wish I had taken a picture. Then I saw poop full of roundworms in the yard from the chickens. Yuk Being raised on a farm, I'm thinking worms try to be farm animals too.

Sally, you bring up a number of interesting talking points. I think about things like this all of the time.

I was raised on a farm owned and worked by parents that survived the Great Depression. They had animals as childeren and then later when I was a kid for food. Not for pets or because they had extra income for cute critters to enjoy. They raised them and ate them. Many people starved in the era they grew up in. My folks taught me about farming, butchering, canning, and harvesting from a very young age. Even though I am not desperate for food these years of my life or lack extra income, I am forever grateful for knowing how to raise and procure food for myself or loved ones. Even though living on a small patch of ground like I do limits how much.

Raising food naturally means different things to different folk on this thread. First of all, there is nothing natural in the animals point of view from being raised out an electric incubator or bred and birthed in captivity for many generations. They are our captives and subject to our whims and mercy. But we humans have been domesticating animals for food and clothing for as long as humans could write about it and most likely for longer than that. Is that natural? I don't know and I don't care. I'm like you in that I will use what I know will work if it means keeping an animal alive up to a point. I've lived long enough to see and use just about everything on the market. Some things work and some don't for some folk. I read and hear lots of advice for new things and old things. My curious mind is always asking, "Prove it."

Kerosene was first distilled by a Persians. It was written about in the 9th century by a Persian scholar. Called coal oil for a long time in the USA. Prisoner of War veterans talked about giving themselves doses of Kerosene to rid themselves of internal parasites. Farmers have used it for generations. In large doses it is toxic. Pretty much large doses of just about anything is toxic in my belief but I digress.

As far as using what's natural and what is not? People could debate this ad nauseum but we all are free agents and make our own free choices.
I am choosing to wash out the kerosene in the water bowl for my small flock of healthy chickens this morning. I found one worm from one bird and can no longer justify dosing them with it. I learned that yes it worked and in a very short amount of time and with a very small dose. I chalk it up to a new learning experience to be remembered. Just like I leaned wood ash kills external parasites. I don't regret my experiment but I'm done after 36 hours.

Thank you Sally for your thought provoking post. And yes, Round worms are with us and they are out there. Double *Yuk!*

 

[delisha]

Mumsy- would you be willing to try the ginger beer worm experiment? I forge which thread it was mentioned... But someone said they gave a syringe of ginger beer, and a pile of worms was excreted. I saw a photo too... Do you have ginger beer?

The reason I'm asking is because I will be taking a fecal sample to the vet in about a month when things start to thaw out a bit, and feel funny using kerosene if they do in fact have worms. Did you withhold eggs after using the kerosene?

Everyone has worms. You are trying to keep it at a certain level. We even have worms.

If you butcher out your birds, you can find them in the intestines if they are really bad. I recently took a sample in to the vets and they said no worms of any kind. They have them, just it is a good healthy level and it was not seen in the fecal. I have not had a visual in the intestines either. When I butcher out these two young cockerels I will look at the intestines of both. One of the young cockerels comes from the neighbors yard.It will be interesting to see if his level is normal after being here for a month or if his level has risen the level of my stock. Having chickens on both side of my property I like to know what is going on. Both sets come on my property. One of the sets I recently dusted them because the mite and lice level was pretty bad. I told my neighbor I was gong to do it before I did it and showed her them. She did not want to handle her own chickens and was afraid of them. She was so surprised I could just pick her chickens up.

 

[off-grid hen]

Yup, we all have worms, even our chickens. I don't know if I would treat or cull, (probably not treat and see who deals with it-I have a hands-off wait and see approach generally) because I have never had to deal with worms. My flock is pretty young. It will be 2 years since I first got chickens in April, so I don't think my flock has been around long enough to start with the more long-term issues some backyard flocks have. I am in this thread and was in the gnarly bunch thread for learning. Just wondering if anyone had tried or was willing to try the ginger beer. That was a really interesting tidbit of info and am ever curious.

 

[stonykill]

Everyone has worms. You are trying to keep it at a certain level. We even have worms.

this has been my thought while scanning through all of the posts since last night. You and I have worms. Our cats and dogs have worms and yes our chickens have worms. I am more concerned with what will happen if I offset the healthy balance than I am of ridding my birds of every worm in their system. My feeling is once you upset the natural balance of ANYTHING you have created an uphill battle for the rest of it's life. Just my .02

 

[Mumsy]

Mumsy- would you be willing to try the ginger beer worm experiment? I forge which thread it was mentioned... But someone said they gave a syringe of ginger beer, and a pile of worms was excreted. I saw a photo too... Do you have ginger beer?

The reason I'm asking is because I will be taking a fecal sample to the vet in about a month when things start to thaw out a bit, and feel funny using kerosene if they do in fact have worms. Did you withhold eggs after using the kerosene?

Ginger beer? I think I saw it for sale at the local hardware store. I know right? Weird place to see that. Sure, I'd be willing to try that someday.

I got one egg yesterday at 8 am. I'll get two today. I wouldn't give or sell them to anyone but I'm not afraid to eat them myself. I've eaten worse things in my life than an egg from a chicken that drank a single drop of kerosene. Remember...I grew up in the 1950's. DDT was still being sprayed on strawberries and everything else where I lived. The guy that invented DDT won a Nobel Peace prize. It wasn't banned until 1972.
My folks are still alive in their eighties. They didn't get cancer. They had four kids. I'm still here. I don't have cancer. I have four kids. A drop of kerosene that may or may not find it's way into an egg doesn't scare me.
Worms in chickens doen't scare me either. I was curious if kerosene would work and answered that curiosity. Now I'm curious about Ginger Beer! Hah!

 

[off-grid hen]

This reminds me of a conversation with my grandmother who was born in 1929. She was talking about how produce tastes so different now. My sister said, "oh everything must have been so fresh and organic". Grandma replied, "No, we sprayed everything with DDT!"

 

[jlynnet]

Mumsy, I really enjoyed your article on incubating eggs. I could use you here to plant lots of stuff on my property. I have lots of room but little time.

 

[delisha]

Quote: I understand your thinking. It is hard to *change* and it is uncomfortable to think about doing something different. You have the added stress of the *what if*. I think differently now. I know what I was doing was working. my flock was healthy. They did not drop dead, or have runny noses. They layed eggs on a regular bases. I tried culling before they got too old or too fat. My only fail was/is predator protection. I use tennis balls soaked in Ammonia. It is simply not enough. because I was still loosing a few birds a year to coyotes, and I came on here to BYC to find answers and new ideas.

I added FF to thier diet. They are better and I save money. Win! I added additional things to there diet. Things I have learned here. Change is good if the results are good. If I change something and it does not work for my flock, I will just change back. my birds are healthy. Something like giving them Oregano, or Kerosene is not going to change them for the bad, it will give me knowledge about my flock. It will let me know if it something I might need or not.I have confidence in my healthy flock. I have confidence in myself.

 

[Toast n Jelly]

Don't know where y'all got your numbers but you could always move...

Besides, who among us is average?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

82.81 for where I am...phew

I'll be 72 this October.

So What do you think? Should I hatch out a bunch of chicks? with all the hatching that'll be going on in here I'm always tempted but because of age I just don't know......plus not really anyone around that will take them if need be. Hmmmmm. But chickens sure keep me motivated and excersized.

That smiley looks like he's getting a workout lol, but I'm sure that Mellabella could throw in a better one! Now to trot out to the barn and take care of the girls. I do feel better now..Thanks!

 

[Mumsy]

Mumsy, I really enjoyed your article on incubating eggs. I could use you here to plant lots of stuff on my property. I have lots of room but little time.

Thank you! Truly! I write about and share things I do not because I think it's the best way or the only way but because it's fun for me to share. Period.

I have lots of time but little room! Hah! If we were neighbors, I'd be digging stuff up on my place to give you , collecting seeds, and sharing cuttings with you. Sometimes I run into people in the village grocery store that I don't remember knowing. They will say, "Remember that rose cutting you gave me fifteen years ago? It's still blooming and I love it." I've shared lots of plants over the years. I would do it with you in a heart beat.