The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[lalaland]

Really Bad News:

I lost a year old hen a week ago, noticed she was a bit off, she died that night on the roost.

Few days later, a 4 year old BO was not doing well, treated her for two days and she died. Her sypmptoms were clear watery diareaha - lack of appetite, incredible thirst, listlessness. She initially responded to yogurt and oil, passing green stools with white urates, but died overnight. Necropsy was all that fat....
That was yesterday.

An hour ago, I found a year old hen standing still. She didn't object or move when I picked her up. I tried to do an epsom flush dose, but she wouldn't swallow and let her head sag down. She is near death. She was fine , or appeared fine yesterday, but I know very ill hens will still try to act normal - even fake pecking at food/ground.

I have pulled all the feed and waterers. Have been feeding a wet high protein (20%) mash, with a dry mash when it has been too cold. ACV in water. I don't have bleach, but I scrubbed everything in hot soapy water, rinsed with white vinegar and am air drying.

I want to do a flock molasses flush. I can't right now, because you shouldn't do that for more than 8 hours, and there is so much snow that the hens probably aren't drinking a lot, they seem to prefer nibbling on the slushy snow. If I put out the molasses now, I wouldn't know who had it, so I will wait til I can lock them up and restrict drinking to the molasses flush. Unfortunately, I've gotten out of the habit of training them to come into the coop with a call, and I can't get them in til they go in for the evening.

You can see I suspect some kind of digestive issue? No other symptoms. Today's hen didn't lay yesterday, but has been a regular layer 2 out of 3 days.

They were in the compost a week ago, and last week it was warmer and there was a lot of puddles that hens were enthusiastically drinking out of. Not sure if they could have gotten into something but I think that would have shown up earlier? -

I will do a necropsy, and a more detailed one this time.

At this rate I won't have to demo out the trailer to make room for the chicks.

 

[Leahs Mom]

I had one of the canning jar waterers that I had out for the chicks get knocked over - twice - in the course of the last few weeks and the litter under that area had been spread around in there and it was beginning to make a stink.

So...since it was time for a partial clean-out of the old litter anyway, I took a lot of litter out of the hen house today and, in particular, that bad litter.

Went to the garden area and dug up a wheelbarrow full of dirt that was loaded with worms and whatever else is in there. Put the wheelbarrow full of dirt down in he hen house then shoveled back up some of the old litter and added a bit of new.

They are going to have a great time finding those worms!

Oh...and this is what I did when I first started my deep litter on a vinyl floor. Local dirt from the garden and the litter over that. Makes a good start for the litter and gets the local "goodies" going in there.

 

[delisha]

Hello again,
I need some advice. I have a hen that has raspy breathing a occasional sneeze. Eyes are not watering and no nasal discharge. Appetite is good. She is.laying regularly. I panicked and didnt want it to spread to my other birds so I.treated her with tylan50 for 5 days. Now no more sneezing and the raspy is very slight. I feed her fermented feed and water with ACV. I've only had her for a little over a week. Nobody else.in my flock is getting whatever respiratory yuck she has. Is there anything else I can do for her? Cayan pepper? Garlic? Could it just be something caught in her throat? I cant imagine that its worms....or could.it be? I have checked her poo and there is no worm shed in it. Suggestions?

Advice?
Never ever put a new bird in with your flock
Kill all birds with respiratory illness immediately. Send it off to be tested to see what you did to the rest of your flock. Most diseases involving respiratory problems makes the birds carriers for life. They will get sick again and eventually infect your whole flock. You will spend the rest of your chicken life constantly tending to sick and dying chickens.

I have not seen any worms at all, and I have been checking quite often. I think my neighbors think I'm strange when they see me poking apart a fresh poor with a stick...

Now I feel crazy just saying it! Lol. The whole reason I started looking into this is because I got a couple blue copper marans roosters from a person local to me I met here on this site. Well the.birds were very skinny to me. Now I don't really know exactly what a "normal" healthy chicken is supposed to feel like exactly(this is my first flock), but they didn't feel any where close to what my girls feel like. I posted this on the marans thread and they said they should not be skinny, theyre meat birds, and to worm them asap, and even though I didn't see worms they could still have them.

Now this lady kept them inside, she wasn't allowed roosters, and from what I understand they ate whatever she cooked. I figured this was why they were skinny. Now they have put on weight in the last month and a half but not a whole lot. I have no clue how fast they are supposed to put on weight.

But, I noticed a couple of my hens breastbones are slightly more prominent now. Still no worms in the poor tho. I think this is because the boys are really aggressive with the girls, but that's a whole other issue, and its stressing them a little.

Sorry this is so lengthy, just trying to paint a clear picture. Long story short, I do not know if they have worms, I have not seen any, but like a previous poster replied, I too believe an ounce of prevention is worth pounds of cure. Hence the reason I came here! Not wanting to pump my birds full of chemicals, and not knowing if they are infected, and possibly causing a resistance of some kind, I wanted to find a more gentle and natural approach.

Once again, sorry for rambling, but I wanted to get you as much info as possible. Thank you all so much for your help.
Quote: You do not see most worms..take a sample in

Quote: For impacted gizzard it is huge from the muscle working and working.

Quote: You dont have to take the chicken..when you take the dog poop in take a sample of chicken poop

Thank you all for being so helpful and welcoming! There were to many posts to quote so I am just going to ask a few more questions and hope the right people read it. Lol.
With the garlic, do I chop it, shred it? Can I feed it to them straight?
The seeds, do they have to be the soft fresh ones or can I used dried/baked ones?
How much cayenne do you guys use?
I need coffee before I can process all of what I read. Lol

Either will work
what kind of seeds?
everyone uses different amounts. One tablespoon a month for 12 birds should do it
I need it too

Quote:

Eggcessive, thank-you for responding. I knew I should have quarantined her but I Had no idea for how long. I guess I was just excited and she seemed healthy so I didn't.quarantine....a.bad decision I know....hope this one doesn't bite me in the butt I didn't see watery eyes or funny nose so I thought it was just environmental...its been raining cats and dogs for 2 weeks straight, and.COLD..... the hen seems fine now and nobody else is showing any symptoms. I can't get the.link to work.
30 days minimum alone and 30 days with one of your birds..that way you loose only one bird instead of a whole flock

Really Bad News:

I lost a year old hen a week ago, noticed she was a bit off, she died that night on the roost.

Few days later, a 4 year old BO was not doing well, treated her for two days and she died. Her sypmptoms were clear watery diareaha - lack of appetite, incredible thirst, listlessness. She initially responded to yogurt and oil, passing green stools with white urates, but died overnight. Necropsy was all that fat....
That was yesterday.

An hour ago, I found a year old hen standing still. She didn't object or move when I picked her up. I tried to do an epsom flush dose, but she wouldn't swallow and let her head sag down. She is near death. She was fine , or appeared fine yesterday, but I know very ill hens will still try to act normal - even fake pecking at food/ground.

I have pulled all the feed and waterers. Have been feeding a wet high protein (20%) mash, with a dry mash when it has been too cold. ACV in water. I don't have bleach, but I scrubbed everything in hot soapy water, rinsed with white vinegar and am air drying.

I want to do a flock molasses flush. I can't right now, because you shouldn't do that for more than 8 hours, and there is so much snow that the hens probably aren't drinking a lot, they seem to prefer nibbling on the slushy snow. If I put out the molasses now, I wouldn't know who had it, so I will wait til I can lock them up and restrict drinking to the molasses flush. Unfortunately, I've gotten out of the habit of training them to come into the coop with a call, and I can't get them in til they go in for the evening.

You can see I suspect some kind of digestive issue? No other symptoms. Today's hen didn't lay yesterday, but has been a regular layer 2 out of 3 days.

They were in the compost a week ago, and last week it was warmer and there was a lot of puddles that hens were enthusiastically drinking out of. Not sure if they could have gotten into something but I think that would have shown up earlier? -

I will do a necropsy, and a more detailed one this time.

At this rate I won't have to demo out the trailer to make room for the chicks.

I am sorry you are going threw this...you need to call you state lab and send the bird in.This is more than just fat. Do not put your new chicks any where around where your birds have been. You need to find out if someone has poisoned them or you have a bag of bad feed.

are you using plastic for your waterers?
I am going to assume your birds are poisoned...do not feed them any more food at all.

soak some bread in yogurt over night and give that tomorrow.
look around your yard for a container that should not be there.

 

[delisha]

http://eap.mcgill.ca/agrobio/ab370-04e.htm
Worming

Diseases and labs by state
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/animal_dis_spec/poultry/participants.shtml

http://www.peafowl.org/ARTICLES/15/
Coryza

Respiratory diseases

http://www.barnyardhealth.com/resinindompo.html

 

[camilleathome]

Why can't we find the round worms when we clean the chickens then? Even if we are looking for them. They are a pretty good size worm. I am not disputing this really raises my curiosity.

MOST worms are microscopic. You cannot see them with your own eye. Others hide in specific areas of the body and you will not see them unless necropsied as they never get to the hind gut.

You can see tapeworm(THey look like rice) but roundworm you cant unless your looking through a microscope at a fecal float.

 

[lalaland]

Delisha,
Thank you so much for your help.
You are wondering the same things I am.
WIth all this snow, they are in a restricted area - under the coop and in the coop. I did look through the coop and storage area to see if there was something amiss. I don't keep poisons.I couldn't find anything alarming.

I did use a new bale of hay a couple of weeks ago- it was good quality meant for feeding stock - I can't think that it would have anything to make them sick.
I have 4 feed bins: one of oat groats, one of boss, one of 20% mash ground fine, one of 15% mash more coarse. I am probably 3 weeks into each mash bin, meaning they have been eating that for 3 weeks, so if it was poison they would have been sick before now. Boss and oats have been there since Nov.

THe possibility of moldy feed? that worries me because of a week prior with the melting snow...but it should have been too cold for anything to grow, if something spilled and sat in the dirt.
The compost had rotting squashes.

I am going to take your advice and this hen will go into the freezer and down to mpls to the state lab on Monday. I will research to see if they can take them frozen, ...

Just came back in from closely observing each remaining hen - poops seemed fine, and all were alert, bright eyed, responsive, talkative...except for the 4 yr old bo who has been poorly for 6-8 months!

 

[bluebirdnanny]

http://eap.mcgill.ca/agrobio/ab370-04e.htm
Worming

Diseases and labs by state
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/animal_dis_spec/poultry/participants.shtml

http://www.peafowl.org/ARTICLES/15/
Coryza

Respiratory diseases

http://www.barnyardhealth.com/resinindompo.html

Thanks for these links. Will bookmark them in case I am ever in need.

Delisha,
Thank you so much for your help.
You are wondering the same things I am.
WIth all this snow, they are in a restricted area - under the coop and in the coop. I did look through the coop and storage area to see if there was something amiss. I don't keep poisons.I couldn't find anything alarming.

I did use a new bale of hay a couple of weeks ago- it was good quality meant for feeding stock - I can't think that it would have anything to make them sick.
I have 4 feed bins: one of oat groats, one of boss, one of 20% mash ground fine, one of 15% mash more coarse. I am probably 3 weeks into each mash bin, meaning they have been eating that for 3 weeks, so if it was poison they would have been sick before now. Boss and oats have been there since Nov.

THe possibility of moldy feed? that worries me because of a week prior with the melting snow...but it should have been too cold for anything to grow, if something spilled and sat in the dirt.
The compost had rotting squashes.

I am going to take your advice and this hen will go into the freezer and down to mpls to the state lab on Monday. I will research to see if they can take them frozen, ...

Just came back in from closely observing each remaining hen - poops seemed fine, and all were alert, bright eyed, responsive, talkative...except for the 4 yr old bo who has been poorly for 6-8 months!

I am so sorry you are having this trouble. I think I would isolate the 4 year old too or cull it. Could be a carrier that is making others sick? With so much problems I don't think I would keep one with the others that has been poorly for 6 months!!


My girls have become sporatic... was getting 3 consistantly. Then one is laying lighter eggs now. Yesterday had 3, 2 day before and a few days in between good lays I got just one. Today they must be mad at me. They did get to spend time out in the kennell pen but didn't give me a single egg today. That is a first for them. If tomorrow is a no egg day I will be worried after all the posted egg laying problems lately! Maybe just a day off.... this morning was blistery wind.

 

[BlueMouse]

Thank you all for being so helpful and welcoming! There were to many posts to quote so I am just going to ask a few more questions and hope the right people read it. Lol.
With the garlic, do I chop it, shred it? Can I feed it to them straight?
The seeds, do they have to be the soft fresh ones or can I used dried/baked ones?
How much cayenne do you guys use?
I need coffee before I can process all of what I read. Lol

I am going to take your advice and this hen will go into the freezer and down to mpls to the state lab on Monday. I will research to see if they can take them frozen, ...

Just came back in from closely observing each remaining hen - poops seemed fine, and all were alert, bright eyed, responsive, talkative...except for the 4

so sorry to hear all the problems you're having in your flock, I hope you get good information from the testing and everyone else stays bright eyed and busy!

I went to work today and came home and my husband had installed light strips in the brooder! I don't do electric, and am very thankful that he's great at it. Also my cup waterers came! I'm installing two into each level of the brooder, and a 5 gal bucket with three of them in the henhouse. Hopefully getting that done tomorrow, plus installing nest boxes, plus getting ready for planting fruit trees... busy weekend, and it got real short since I worked today. Off to catch up with housework!

 

[pigeonguy]

MOST worms are microscopic. You cannot see them with your own eye. Others hide in specific areas of the body and you will not see them unless necropsied as they never get to the hind gut.

You can see tapeworm(THey look like rice) but roundworm you cant unless your looking through a microscope at a fecal float.

I thought you could see round worms if you cut the intestine open. Done a google search just now and found that is not always true

 

[kian]

Ok, I have a non worming question (but I have really appreciated all the info. I love that I can constantly learn on this thread!!): Now that I am sure that my broody is really broody I'm going to be getting some fertile eggs for her to sit on. My question is: is it really best to move her to a separate pen? Should it be within the run still so that she can intergrate the chicks easier? Should it be completely away from everyone else? Right now she is in the favorite nest box (of course!). I managed to get the last egg from yesterday and the first laid today out of the nest when she was eating this morning. I wondered what would happen when she returned to the empty nest and well she just stayed in there, waiting for more eggs. And so yes, the other girls just squeezed in next to her! I'm sure there are three under her at least. I don't know if my other CM laid today. (the broody did NOT lay yesterday).

Thank you !!