The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

They are quite tasty even when small... ;)

I used to cage separately when I was still figuring out the best way to fatten them and keep a peaceful flock, but really it seems best done through breeding, and free ranging them until cull day is best for our health. I maintain a steady adult population of both genders and any misbehaving teens of either gender will be punished by the adults. I used to have rampant cockerel issues for a very brief time but haven't had for many generations; I started blaming the fathers for the sins of the sons, so to speak, and it seems to apply. Roosters who mistreat or disrespect hens tend to breed those notoriously bad cockerels. Originally I too thought it was just puberty. Breed gentleman roosters and you get very well mannered boys. Win-win!

However while you're figuring out how you feel is best to deal with your issue there, caging them in sight of the hens is probably best, it'll give them something to look at besides eachother. If too bored too quickly they may start turning that bad behaviour on eachother. If you're going to release them once incarcerating them, they will be a blight on the flock, best to maintain freeranging or caging. One or the other. One nasty cockerel I culled young would not let the other boys off the perch to feed, defeating the whole purpose of caging to fatten, which I found doesn't work well anyway... Not for me.

It is a very thick tarry liquid, not like the tar used on roads, but not like water though it gets quite runny on hot days. I thought it would stain and dirty feathers and fur but have found it absorbs straight in like it was never there, bar an after-scent. I don't use the diluted stuff, just pure Stockholm tar. Costs $9 a liter and so far a liter has lasted me three years and is still about a fifth full and has saved a bunch of lives as well as healed human injuries and infections. It's nowhere near strong enough to remove feathers.

For all the reasons SallyinIndiana said, and also because I have multiple family lines that I cross carefully and need multiple roosters to avoid inbreeding; if I had only one rooster at a time, my girls would get old waiting for their best usage as breeding hens, but with multiple roosters, during each hen's breeding lifetime I can identify the best matches, make trial breedings, inbreed when I need to investigate a defective sign that's cropping up, etc... Also if you keep just one rooster, when/if you decide to breed for meat or get more to breed, there will likely be strife, since even roosters from a multiple rooster home can become intolerant of other males really fast when kept with only hens. I invest in their future offspring's attitudes by maintaining multiple males.

Random off topic idea: selling 'pre-loaded' flock-starting hens. I have done this before and wonder if there might be an industry niche for it. You basically sell a hen that's mated with one or more roosters, if multiple then in fairly quick succession. If she's a proven broody and mother, that's the start of someone's chook farm, lol! Since a hen can be 'pregnant' with the offspring of many different roosters at once, for the purposes of those wanting random surprise babies, it's been kinda popular. I've also sold combos of proven chook hen mothers with turkey chicks they've just hatched, for those starting their turkey flocks. Some people sure have some random requests...

And will mate with many more than he can fertilize the eggs from, in my experience.

I have only encountered one rooster who could fertilize as often as he mated, and he was a full-size silkie crossed with a mongrel. He and the hen that liked him the most could mate in a split second, literally; he would come running across the yard, she would do a spin-about on the spot to present her rear to him, sit, and he would go flying over the top of her and it was done. He didn't hold on, didn't put his feet on her, didn't even touch her beyond the 'cloacal kiss' --- he literally ricocheted over her. Split second matings, no exaggeration! I was inundated with his offspring, lol, good eating, but I still can't believe he managed to breed with basically every single hen for as long as I kept him (a few years). None of the other boys, despite their efforts, got a look-in.

My seemingly most virile rooster, on the other hand, was about 95% infertile. He would mate over and over and over again in a minute with the same hen, and it took me years to get a grand total of one chick from him, and she wasn't anything great. He came from a Black Australorp, Buff Orp, Light Sussex, Leghorn (and a few others) breeder and was a mix, black and pale gold, very fancy but effectively useless.

Some genetic issues can be fixed, but it takes time, patience, resources, knowledge, and a host of other attributes most of us (myself included) do not have in sufficient quantity. I have bred out a bunch of issues but with some I just join the cull crew... Way too time consuming, too far gone, too difficult to fix, etc. I applaud and admire the efforts of those maintaining and rebuilding heritage breeds of anything but personally it is something I would need to read another few libraries' worth about before I feel game to tackle it. Keen but too busy otherwise. Too new, got too much to learn right now. Etc.
When the poster said "it is genetic and can't be fixed" I think they were referring to curing that specific bird, not a multi-generation breed out of the problem "gene"
 
Mumsy & Delisha sorry to hear about your illnesses

Delisha I watched the video several times. To me the silky looks poofed up but pulled into itself. I have never had silkies before so perhaps they are suppose to look like that but it looks like it has its head pulled in also.

I didn't see anything unusual with the wyandotte but I am a newbie so that may be why
 
Sorry I haven't been on much lately. Been so busy with... stuff. And things. Also they have been showing the house we are renting and my kids are home for the summer. A clean house and crazy kids do NOT go hand-in-hand.
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Interestingly, I also have a bird with an apparent leg injury. She's in one of the trailer's little private suites, but she can still see the birds that enter the trailer and sleep in there. It's not broken and it isn't dislocated. It has to be some sort of soft-tissue injury and as she's my only crested SFH pullet, I'm holding out hope she'll heal. She's getting plenty of liver and protein, and she loves it when I pick grass for her.

The BCM eggs under my SFH broody seem to be developing. Hard to tell with eggs that dark! LOL. One broody is awesome - she's the one who got the eggs. The other is hilarious. She's like that annoying co-worker we've all had who can't go more than a few hours without getting up to socialize for an hour or two before going back to work. And she rotates nests regularly just to make sure all the golf balls get a little love. And in the morning? She's on the perch. LOL! No eggs for you! The eggs under the good broody are scheduled to hatch on Monday.

Oh - big news! Got my first fertile SFH egg since bringing home the new roos! I have ONE mature SFH who is currently not broody - but with the hot weather she's slowed down in the laying department. So aside from the one I ate, I have one waiting until I decide if I'm going to put it under another broody or not.

 
Hey...just checking in. I've missed over 100 posts. We had a death in the family and I haven't been around much so don't know when I'll catch up.

Still out here "somewhere" ...
 
Quote: Sounds about the same as it is for even mammals, the male that got in there last is more likely to sire the offspring. Sex Ed's really backwards here, kids still get taught they were the sperm that won the race (they forget that half of their makeup was in the egg, and think they were entirely sperm, lol)... This, despite them watching actual videos showing all the millions of other sperm being destroyed by the acidic female reproductive ph as they blaze a trail, then all the other sperm that reach the egg dying to neutralize the egg's protective shell, then that one lazy johnny-come-lately getting into the egg. Fanciful CGI videos show it as a single sperm outracing the rest, not trailing in to success on their coattails. As far as I'm aware it is the seminal fluid that is ph neutral, and the outer coating of the sperm, but they die when they've outraced that protection, and that's when greater numbers of sperm are needed, since their little corpses serve the same ph-neutralizing function.

About the roosters, I've noticed lots of people complaining they keep their main breeding rooster with the hens in the cages and the cockerels outside, but the younger fella mating with the girls when they come out to free range gets all the bubs. Also I've seen it occur more often than not by far, in all other matings I've seen the end results of, it's the last in who gets the most or even all offspring.

On that topic I've also noticed afternoon matings are far more successful than morning ones. Hens would mate with 'husbands' in the morning, usually the alpha males, out of obligation, (most of my hens don't actually choose the alpha males as mates, strangely) but in the afternoon go sneaking off into the bushes temporarily with 'boyfriends' and that's who sires the most offspring. They'd mate briefly then go running back to the alpha like 'see, I was always here'. I'm sure some hens are doing it deliberately; not all, but some are very deceptive and will pretend to be sticking with the main flock of 'wives' until the group goes around a corner or out of sight behind bushes, then instantly, silently hurry off in the opposite direction to meet a boy waiting in the bushes. The husbands try to keep an eye on certain wives more than others, too, lol, but all in vain.

They will mate with their 'husband' in the mornings but put up quite a fuss if he tries to mate with them after their visit to the boyfriend. The alpha males who have the most females around them daily usually get the least offspring. I'm sure they mostly 'twig' to it, too, since over time the cuckolded males get more and more frustrated about the hens sneaking off with the other roosters; I'll see them eyeing every new lot of chicks hatched, and getting more and more aggravated as the years march by... That used to happen anyway, but hasn't in a while, things changed. Maybe like humans they can smell their best genetic matches, and possibly smell their supposed 'wives' offspring is not in fact theirs. The end result of that issue was that my roosters stopped trying to gather the most hens possible to themselves, and each instead concentrated on tending the hens that already chose them as mates, and harmony really began to prevail, lol. That partnering off is where my flock has stayed for many generations now. I suspect some of the smartest hens also fake-mate, though I'm not sure how that works if indeed it is a possibility, but I do know they will not get 'pregnant' to a rooster they resent, despite shaking after mating.

I have some hens who always have at least three roosters represented in every clutch. About a rooster's sperm being 'on top' until used up, I don't think there are any significant mechanisms in place to prevent sperm mixing, which is the usual explanation for many species of males trying to prevent access to the female by other males. Dogs get 'tied' for up to half an hour and it still doesn't stop other males mixing their genes into the same litter. I do know when one male 'blazes the trail' (i.e. sacrifices a lot of sperm to neutralize the acidic ph to reach the egg) any male coming along immediately will have his sperm basically achieve the goal minus the effort since that's already been done. Some other species actively seek out as many fathers as possible for every lot of babies, and it's speculated that this prevents infanticide since nobody knows whose they are. Or at least that was the prevailing theory last I checked. This one pertains to primate groups mainly, but also any multi-male family setup.

They did some interesting studies on superb wrens and found each male has up to three or so wives. But during the twilight hours, these 'wives' would go sneaking off and mate with males who held no territory, then come back and be dutiful wives with their husband as he helped rear chicks that weren't his. Strange, and I didn't think much of their explanations for it... Too hard to explain that one at the moment! lol.

Also with many males of species that hold territories in the breeding seasons, the females would often associate with one male who seemed dominant and like he had all the girls, but they'd sneak off to get pregnant by a wandering male who held no territory and fought no fights. (Brumbies, some tortoises & antelope are some examples). The textbooks stick with the original suppositions, but the recent documentaries and studies disprove them. The old books they still teach as fact around here claim elephant herds are led by young bulls, despite every documentary kids watch showing they're led by matriarches.

I think, based on this and having watched various similar situations with different species of pets and livestock, that harem-keeping practices are in fact the fall-back breeding strategy of sub-par males. Still good enough to win fights, but not so great females choose them above all others, unless not given a choice. It's been consistently documented that some males don't attempt to hold territories but still mated with many females each breeding season, even those from another male's territory. These other males had females come seek them out at the best possible times for conception; the males who fought to gather, maintain and keep other males away from a group of females often ended up not fathering anywhere near the percentages expected.

Many females are happy to take advantage of this harem-master's protection from all the random young or unwanted males hanging around the edges, but would sneak away to seek out the male of their choice at the first opportunity. They found with red deer it is the hind that determines who is the dominant stag, nothing to do with him per se; dominant hinds produce dominant stags, and subordinate hinds produce subordinate stags... All just random stuff that is interesting (to me at least) and often defies simple accurate explanation.

Quote: @Kassaundra: I agree, and my reply was just a musing on the subject, not any attempt at refuting what they said. Perhaps a cut and paste put into quote would have been better than quoting my whole post, though, lol... It's a brick wall of text that didn't really need repeating to reference. Re-posts must account for most of this thread's size. ;)
 
The chickens are fine now
yesss.gif
I guess there was just something in the air. I checked on them today, and they all had a fine dust on their skin ( is was red clay color ) Couldn't figure out where they were dusting, since this rain has washed away all their wallows, Well, found a 1 ft deep, 2' ft wide dusting area under my porch! Glad they're still cleaning them selves. Anyone know what kind of bug this is? ( small one ) There are these, and tiny ones in the coops, but are slowly lessening in numbers. any ideas? ( black ant for comparison )
 
The chickens are fine now
yesss.gif
I guess there was just something in the air. I checked on them today, and they all had a fine dust on their skin ( is was red clay color ) Couldn't figure out where they were dusting, since this rain has washed away all their wallows, Well, found a 1 ft deep, 2' ft wide dusting area under my porch! Glad they're still cleaning them selves. Anyone know what kind of bug this is? ( small one ) There are these, and tiny ones in the coops, but are slowly lessening in numbers. any ideas? ( black ant for comparison )
not clear enough for my old eyes..sorry
loose to be a pupa of some species
 

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