The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[MumsyII]

AFL - mIne have slowed down laying this week too. I was wondering if the cool weather here was "faking them out" and they were going to do a fall molt or something. No one is molting...just wondered if that might have been the issue.

HERE IS A STRANGE FF QUESTION:
Sometimes I throw the ff on the ground for them in a certain area. Not all of it but some.

I have noticed that where I throw the ff, little toadstools have grown up. Lots of them. That would indicate to me one of 2 things. Either the feed has a lot of fungus spores in it. Or the feed "feeds" spores that are out there already.

I don't like the idea of fungus spores in their feed. I know that is one of the hazards of grains...harboring fungus spores that can be deadly to animals in the feed. So it makes me a little wary of the grains. However, the ff has so much acid that I think it takes care of the spores that might be harmful.

Just wondering about all this. Kind of a "what came first" question... is is spores in the feed or is it spores in the ground being fed by the feed?

Well...Spores have nothing to do with it. The toad stools as you call them are the actual fruit of the mycelium that is already present in the soil. The entire earth is colonized by various mycelium. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycelium

When you break apart a rotten log, you see all the white spongy stuff growing throughout it? That is mycelia. The actual plant that grows mushroom fruit. What we call fungus. For what ever reason, when you spill out FF on the ground, the fruit pops up. It could also be a coincidence. Some varieties of mushrooms only fruit after rain during certain times of the year. Then they finish for that 'bloom' period. You may get them again next year in the same place. You may not see them for five years or even in your life time. It depends on the fungus.

 

[MumsyII]

Mumsy where do you get the "expanding" bands?

I have found them on the sale table at poultry shows and I also purchase them on Amazon.com. I just got two boxes recently. Google leg bands for poultry. Try to find free shipping.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Quote:
Interesting! It has been raining here but so far the only place these little "toadstools" pop up is exactly where I put he ff.

Is it possible that there could be mycelium on the grains in the feed? Otherwise, I'm guessing they like something in the feed

 

[Sally8]

Well...Spores have nothing to do with it. The toad stools as you call them are the actual fruit of the mycelium that is already present in the soil. The entire earth is colonized by various mycelium. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycelium

When you break apart a rotten log, you see all the white spongy stuff growing throughout it? That is mycelia. The actual plant that grows mushroom fruit. What we call fungus. For what ever reason, when you spill out FF on the ground, the fruit pops up. It could also be a coincidence. Some varieties of mushrooms only fruit after rain during certain times of the year. Then they finish for that 'bloom' period. You may get them again next year in the same place. You may not see them for five years or even in your life time. It depends on the fungus. 

Is this dangerous to the chickens at all? I've noticed it all over. We've had flies pretty bad. Even in the house. I have them wherever it gets wet so I've tried to stop that (the flies). I've had troubles with feed from tractor supply but that's the only place I can get it without driving many miles. Nothing's been normal this year compared to the last few. Not only have we had terrible flooding last night, it's forecasted again and it's BLACK outside right now. Warnings all over the tv and scanner. Ron (DH) got called out last night at 10 to help with flooding, came home at 5 ish, got called back out at 8:30 and isn't home yet. I wonder how he likes retirement? lol


HOLY CRAP IT'S RAINING HARD OUT!!!!

 

[MumsyII]

Interesting! It has been raining here but so far the only place these little "toadstools" pop up is exactly where I put he ff.

Is it possible that there could be mycelium on the grains in the feed? Otherwise, I'm guessing they like something in the feed

Mycelium would grow in your ff if you left it to rot. It is not to be confused with mold. Myclium is a growing organism. It is a sort of plant in that the myclium comes first and then the fruit. Conditions have to be just right for mushrooms or the various forms of it to fruit.

It could be the acid content of the ff. Many fungus live in the deep rotting forest floor. Very moist and acid-y. You can identify your mushrooms by taking spore samples and looking for pictures of it in fungus books. It's a fascinating hobby if you have the time. There are many thousands of types. Even experts have trouble identifying some types.

It could be some kind of chemical mix in your ff that brings these to the top of the soil. It's really interesting to me.

Edited to add: I don't worry about my chickens eating fungus any more than I worry about them eating anything else that is bad for them. I let my chickens figure it out.

 

[aaggjg]

Hi All,

I have been away from the thread for a couple of months and I am not going to pretend I will EVER catch up!! I was crazy busy with work and then I have been out of town... Finally getting back to a normal routine around here .... So a few things I thought you all might be able to help with or find interesting:

First before I left I noticed that my GLW, Caesar had taken to "napping" in the morning in the run & yard .... I didnt think much of it as she went broody this time last year... a few days later she did indeed "go broody" but after a few days gave it up as the nest boxes were crowded with 2 other broodies and she didn't want to share. She has still been doing her "napping" thing but I figured she id biding her time until a nestbox becomes free.... Well, yesterday I noticed that she was standing holding one leg up .... I watched her for awhile and she seemed to have a slight limp ... So I picked her up and she has the black callus of her footpad. It doesn't look particularly swollen and I of course forgot to take a picture of her foot before I wrapped it last night. She DOES NOT LIKE THE SPA I soaked her foot in epsom salts for 15 mins, applied nustock and wrapped in vet wrap. She has been trying to get the bandage off all morning!! When she was in the spa (read kitchen sink) She tried to jump out a few times and when I subdued her she was panting ... I am assuming she has bumblefoot? So my question is have any of you treated this successfully non surgically??? And how do I know if it is getting worse??

Secondly, just before I took a break from this thread my BCM started wheezing .... I brought her in the house and tried to boost her immune system with everything I could find. I tried the various respiratory teas, garlic, plague tonic etc etc ... She seemed to be holding at a constant wheeze & laying so I was hopeful... well after 5 days she took a turn for the worse and died a day later. I live in CA where UC Davis has a great free service to backyard chicken owners ... they do a free autopsy of your birds. So I took her in and got the results...


Upper respiratory tract inflammation, with:
- Rhinitis, multifocal to diffuse, lymphoplasmacytic, moderate, with numerous intraluminal hyphae consistent with Aspergillus sp.
- Tracheitis, multifocal, lymphoplasmacytic, moderate.
Other findings:
- Negative for Avian Influenza matrix gene by qRT-PCR; pharyngeal swab. Negative for Mycoplasma gallisepticum by PCR; tracheal swab.
- Negative for Avian Infectious Laryngotracheitis by FA; trachea.
- Negative for Salmonella by PCR; liver.
- Mixed flora isolated (rare); trachea, lung; likely incidental.
- Mixed flora isolated (rare); liver, small intestine; incidental.
- Heterakis/Ascaridia eggs present in the feces.
- Listed heavy metals and selenium in acceptable concentrations for this species; liver.



They do tissue tests on the liver for Lead, Manganese, Iron, Mercury, Aresnic, Molybdenum, Zinc, Selenium & Copper
They also test for MG, Infectious Laryngotracheitis, Salmonella, Avian Flu
They do Aerobic bacterial cultures on Liver, Lung, Tracheal & Small Intestine

Oh and I thought this section of the report was interesting:

Addendum 7/2/2013. Sections from the brain, nasal and paranasal cavities, right and left sciatic nerve, right and left brachial plexus, skin, skeletal muscle, lungs, air sacs, myocardium, spleen, liver, kidneys, pancreas, ovary, esophagus, proventriculus, ventriculus, and small and large intestine were examined.
Findings:
Nasal/paranasal cavities: multifocally to diffusely there were moderate numbers of lymphoplasmacytic infiltrates in the lamina propria. The cavities were partly filled with abundant amounts of mucinous material admixed with cellular debris, large numbers of heterophils, smaller numbers of macrophages and lymphocytes, and numerous lightly basophilic to transparent, elongated, hyphae that were 3-6microns in diameter, regularly septate, thin- and parallel-walled, with acute angle dichotomous branching, consistent with Aspergillus sp.
Lung: moderately congested. No other changes observed

It is an amazing service and I got a preliminary report in a few days!!! The tests & final report took a good 6 weeks.... but its free so who is complaining. If only they would attached pictures for all of us to learn from!

 

[mlowen]

It is an amazing service and I got a preliminary report in a few days!!! The tests & final report took a good 6 weeks.... but its free so who is complaining. If only they would attached pictures for all of us to learn from!

Fascinating! Thank you for sharing. I agree--pictures with their report would be awesome. I ran to google to see what Aspergillus was. Made me decide to order Oxine as soon as I have extra money. Welcome back, we missed you!

 

[Farmer Viola]

Can anyone recommend the top 1-3 best types of fodder grass? Primarily for chickens, but also for cows in the winter time when they are off grass. I am considering ryegrass.. not sure if there would be an advantage to barley, or alfalfa, or something else?

What else do you like to grow in/around the garden for the animals?

 

[bluebirdnanny]

I'm sure the smaller number helped. I put them in my new 1588 genesis incubator and made sure there was water but not too much.My house must be dry because I had to keep adding water to the smaller sections not the long sections that circled the floor of the incubator.
The shipped eggs I received were horrible hatch rates. Both the duck eggs from ebay and the sumatra eggs from Stony. Makes me think it had to be the PO. Well with the ducks I am 100% sure it was the PO, the box had a crushed corner. With Stony's it is possible they got a touch too hot. While over half started only 1 hatched from his eggs. These that all hatched were my chicken's eggs. Nothing special really. Just cheap PRIR to sell on CL.

Anytime you want to come for a vacation north...... I may be interested in the PRIR and giving you a bed for the night or two..... I

 

[SallyinIndiana]

about roosters.....I have about 8 roosters that are around 10 weeks old. They seem to be pretty small, not what I would think would be eating size yet. At what age do you start to butcher?
(and yes, I am crying in advance!)

We just processed some last week that were around 16 / 17 weeks old. They were still smaller than the store chickens, a touch smaller than those you see precooked and ready to eat. And the ones that we have left are not really getting any bigger this week. I'm not sure if DH will be processing any tomorrow or not. I'm not able to help him tomorrow so our assembly line would be broken and he would have to gut. It becomes a game of how much feed will they eat to get more meat.

The colored vet wrap is a great idea. Thanks RR and Mumsy!

AFL - when you cut the stuff around your fluffy butts, did you bathe them first?

Strangely, today I noticed when my broody got out of her box that she had what looks like a discharge and it is whitish. I have NEVER seen any signs of anything similar on any of my birds. When she's done her 'broody poop" it is very loose and appropriately stinky for broody poop. But she didn't have loose stools the last time she was broody. Nor have I EVER seen any discharge from any of my birds.

When I was asking about the maggots, it wasn't because of her. I was just interested for various reasons. Now all that has got me thinking.

I'm not sure what to do. Here are the things I'm thinking:

-She's going to be sitting still for a long time. Seems like "fertile ground" for fly strike.
-I haven't set the eggs yet; was going to tomorrow night. If I take her out and try to bathe her and cut some feathers and NuStock, it may disturb her broodiness. Also, don't want NuStock down there to contaminate/suffocate the eggs.
-I guess I could try to trim her after dark (with help) rather than bathing and not put anything on there.

-Or...I could do nothing.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF THIS WERE YOUR BROODY?

I like what Stony said to do and what you did. My only other recommendation would be those cheap fly strips from Walmart I think it is $2 for 8 strips. Maybe you could hang them on either side of the broody area.

Quote: Homeschool is just starting up for the year so no traveling plans in the near future. We have big plans for spring break this year too. But maybe if you live near something really educational then a early summer trip, but most of the time I when I travel, I travel south to the popular tourist areas of the Great Smokey Mountains