The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[SallyinIndiana]

Quote: We get our ground beef from a local guy here. I see his cows at least once a week weather permitting grazing. His ground beef is the best around. It is frozen but it is from the older cows so it includes all of the cuts not just the ones the store could not sell. And the calves are adorable looking from the road.

 

[aoxa]

I'm in a similar situation here. I wanted to get a handful of birds and feed them organic feed and set up a "chemistry free zone" here on the farm so I could raise healthy poultry for myself and the people who work here -- a little co-op for the farm. BUT ... I had a very pushy partner when I was just getting started who INSISTED on me purchasing him 70 birds from the feed store -- all random varieties -- and who literally physically blocked me from starting those birds on organic feed. He also alienated the other employees so nobody wants to participate in the chicken care even if it would mean "free" eggs and meat for them, and then refused to do any work without extreme types of "motivation." Sigh.

However ... I've learned a lot since then, got rid of that partner, and am looking towards transitioning the flock from the hatchery birds and big-business GMO feed to something heritage and dual purpose, fed locally-sourced GMO-free feeds (as much as possible, there will possibly be some exceptions), and ranging on awesome pasture.

What I see a lot of small poultry farmers doing around here is not claiming to be "organic" but specifying that their feed is GMO-free (or sometimes Corn/Soy-free) and that they don't use chemicals on their property. I think that people who follow food politics are starting to realize that the term "Certified Organic", which was intended to be an indication of a small, independent diversified farm, has been co-opted by Industrial Agriculture, mono-cropped, and then regulated in such a way that it is not practical for small-scale integrated farmers. So I think a lot of people are coming to understand that small farmers might not be "Certified Organic," but are perhaps an even better thing.

My egg customers like my prices (they should, I'm selling stuff at a loss), and though they would LOVE to be able to buy "Certified Organic" pastured poultry products, they aren't willing to pay the $9.00/dozen (or more) for the eggs or $5.50/lb for the meat.

I do source my feed locally - so at least there's that... but they do not offer a GMO free food except the organic one. I have considered mixing my own, but I have not found a source for the nutribalancer or whatever it is called. One of these days I will. I have actually checked in with a few big time egg sellers who advertise GMO free, and they grow their own grains. I asked if I could source it from them, but they can not meet my demands on top of their own. So yeah.. that's out.

They charge $40 for a #50 bag of feed organically. It's $17 for the regular stuff. I just can't justify it!

Oh and these are the whole grains I can buy here:

Black Oil Sunflower Seeds, Sunflower seeds (regular), Corn, Oats, Barley, Wheat, and Soybeans. I can buy it all whole or crushed (minus the sunflower seeds). How am I supposed to make a balanced feed with those options?

That's a real question Can I? They don't even sell fish meal.

http://www.yellowpages.com/countryside-il/feed-store
There are quite a few ways to get gmo free in Illinois. I live in WI and wish the drive was not as far. The prices are better there..of course they are better up north here in WI.

I have Marans..I have a black one who grows broody often, but easy to break. I put her in water and she is all good and goes back to laying after a few days of dunks. My black Orp is a whole other ball game. I have yet to break her. She goes broody after laying 30 eggs or after her chicks are a month old. She is horrible.

uote:
I look for weeds in the fields..I like weeds. Than I am relatively certain if they have weeds they are not using high concentrations of chemicals.

Well I have lots of weeds. I even have birdox in my flower garden. I keep joking about it.. Like who has birdox in a flower garden? Not on purpose I assure you... :|

I don't weed. I have an equal mixture of clover, (white clover as well), grass, dandelion, buttercup, and many others I can not identify.

 

[beccasev]

Oh and these are the whole grains I can buy here:

Black Oil Sunflower Seeds, Sunflower seeds (regular), Corn, Oats, Barley, Wheat, and Soybeans. I can buy it all whole or crushed (minus the sunflower seeds). How am I supposed to make a balanced feed with those options? 

That's a real question Can I? They don't even sell fish meal.

 

I know I'm a newbie, but I honestly think you could mix your own feed with what is available, especially since you free range.
I know loanwizard only feeds cob [corn, oats, barley]. Red ridge feeds corn, pats, barley, and sometimes wheat. She does use nutribalancer and fish meal, but she has penned birds too.
I don't use fish meal or nutribalancer. I feed wheat, corn, milo, oats, flax, and boss. It's difficult to get the protein up without soy or fish meal, but you already said they don't rely on you for foods anyway. You may need a commercial feed for winter when the foraging isn't great, but I bet you could balance that out with a super cheap summer recipe of just grains when the foraging is good.
I guess what I'm saying is try it. It's not hard. They are getting most of what they need from the land.

 

[loanwizard]

I know I'm a newbie, but I honestly think you could mix your own feed with what is available, especially since you free range.
I know loanwizard only feeds cob [corn, oats, barley]. Red ridge feeds corn, pats, barley, and sometimes wheat. She does use nutribalancer and fish meal, but she has penned birds too.
I don't use fish meal or nutribalancer. I feed wheat, corn, milo, oats, flax, and boss. It's difficult to get the protein up without soy or fish meal, but you already said they don't rely on you for foods anyway. You may need a commercial feed for winter when the foraging isn't great, but I bet you could balance that out with a super cheap summer recipe of just grains when the foraging is good.
I guess what I'm saying is try it. It's not hard. They are getting most of what they need from the land.

Loanwizard feeds 16% hog feed to chicks, chicken, goose, feeders and breeders.....

Yes, I am still out there. Doing a lot of reflecting lately. Trying new things, feeling sorry for myself, whining that things are turning to crap rather than gold.... I'll figure it out.

Incubated 150 eggs, hatched 18. Didn't matter, put them out at 4 weeks in a grow out box. after a week, released them with some skids for protection. 3rd night free, they all disappeared to a predator. Incubated 140 more eggs, hatched 81. Built on ground kennel/fenced area for beagles replete with electric inside a welded wire fence. Works well, lost star beagle to cancer or something, released other two who are moping around mourning her loss. Buried her on the hillside overlooking the wooded areas she hunted daily.

Don't know if I will be able to afford to feed the breeder hogs, so have to make changes in marketing or end that program. Closed car lot, working on wrapping up loose ends. Going to end up owing 1/2 million on that but may be able to keep rental properties.... They don't want them I say rather wryly....

Bought a concession trailer so been runnin round selling funnel cakes and lemonade.... tough business.

Had an auction last night.... lost money....

But..... I will figure it out, and things will come around.

Thanks for listening to me ramble, it's cathartic.

Shawn

 

[Leahs Mom]

O Shawn

....
How is Carla doing with all this? I hope you 2 have each other to hold on to during all the re-thinking...

 

[MargaretYakoda]

Yeah ... Industrial Organic does not cut it, IMO. And honestly, I think the conditions that "organic" laying birds are kept in are worse for the birds than the battery cages.

I thought it was interesting there was no questions about "Do you keep chickens?" or "Where do you buy your eggs?" or any other nod to small, independent poultry/farming.

Agreed. It smelled very much to me like a fishing expedition for industry. So I took the strategy that my #1 concern for eggs and chickens was non GMO. After that I chose room to be a chicken, humane slaughtering, no antibiotics, in whatever order it seemed would force the theoretical farmer in the survey to treat the chickens right. Everything flows after that. A happy chicken is a healthy chicken, and the eggs will naturally be tastier and better for the consumer's health. Anyhow, that's how I did the survey.

 

[delisha]

Shawn...

 

[loanwizard]

Thanks for the hugs!

Carla seems to have knowledge that I can't get a grasp on. I think she may have some druid in her.

She constantly tells me everything will be ok.

I am in this .... don't know the word for it, but I have been on commission or on my own for over 25 years and the thought of working for someone else..... not exactly a security blanket in my opinion, but maybe I should go get my CDL, or go work for a large car dealer again... I suppose I would be happy enough selling new Hondas or Toyotas....

I have some time yet, but don't want to be selfish to the family.

 

[SallyinIndiana]

Shawn ~ lots of prayers for you and your family.

 

[Leahs Mom]

broad-spectrum mineral supplement, now in an organic-certified formulation. Though I’ve used it for years, more and more I question its necessity. I am feeding the highest quality natural foods I can buy. If in addition the birds are getting plenty of enzymes from green forage and (in summer) insect food—all of which help achieve a more complete absorption of the minerals in the diet—why am I spoon-feeding them basically non-food mineral supplements, however natural? I am experimenting with a gradual reduction of mineral supplementation, other than that of kelp and salt.

It is definitely a MINERAL ISSUE as the Nutribalancer or other additives are the mineral component of a grain-based feed.

I KNOW FOR A SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN FACT that lacto-fermenting makes minerals more bio-available from grains. Calcium is one of those in particular. That's one reason that I have quit putting any calcium supplement at all in my feed (except what comes in the Nutribalancer which I am still using for the time being). (I do offer a calcium source on the side but not much of it is eaten...)

When commercial feeds are made, they're based on how the animals are doing with the nutrients present. Of course this is using grains that have not been fermented and are sometimes pre-cooked and extruded into another form. The pre-cooked ones lose the enzymes as well that help us digest and use what's left.



Even good whole grains that haven't been fermented have the anti-nutrient factor so there is definitely a need to supplement those kinds of feed.

BUT....the good news is...
Most of us have chickens that aren't locked in tiny spaces, eating only commercial rations. And some of us ferment what we do feed... And most of us let our chickens range and get the extras...and most of us have garden veggies available....And....

You get it!

So...I say... YES. I do think you could But even if you don't, the other feeding practices you follow are already awesome !