The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[chicalot]

Coyotes are bad here too...I have friends who hunt game on my property but at a cost...sort of, because they enjoy paying the 'price'...They set snares on the mid areas where my chickens, goats and dogs simply don't usually go.  The snares are the kind that won't kill a dog usually because when the animal relaxes, the snare loosens enough to relieve pressure.  In fact, most coyotes have to be dispatched because they relax after a while too.  I wish the government would pay a bounty on them...after all, they drug hundreds of coyotes in here about 15 years ago...to help thin the the white tail deer population.

Results....more deer than ever, more coyote kills of sheep, calves and just about all other livestock.

OK...Off the soap box.

Oh I know! Still plenty of deer even with nearby poachers. They've been introducing bears to surrounding counties. I'm not excited about that.Dh doesn't use traps and coyotes are hard to hunt.

 

[hellbender]

Oh I know! Still plenty of deer even with nearby poachers. They've been introducing bears to surrounding counties. I'm not excited about that.Dh doesn't use traps and coyotes are hard to hunt.

Snares aren't traps and they are very effective.

I'd not worry about black bears. There's a high ridge on my property where several dens are located and DNR comes in every year and tags them.

They have been known to take stock but they are the least of my worries...they avoid contact with any dogs and are taught to run and climb a tree by their moms. Bears will eat fresh meat if they have to but they prefer carrion, along with grasses, berries, grubs, roots...etc.

 

[Leahs Mom]

I once read something about coyotes. Those of you that have experience...is this true?

I read a couple seasons ago that some of the guys were staking out in the barn lofts at night to shoot the coyotes because they were getting so prolific that they would boldly walk right into the barn even if there were people there (this was in the Virginias).

But here is what caught my attention.
They said that if you take out the alpha female (I believe) of the pack, the pack would move on to a different location. So they would try to identify the AF, take her out, and that would take care of the problem with at least that pack.

Is that true?

 

[jmmeye4]

Quote: Coyotes have a pecking order

if you will. Even if you take out the Alpha another will rise up and take the place. While they will likely move on from the area they will return, as they are very intelligent.

I live in Colorado around Black Forest and have coyotes in the area. Some get very bold and will walk right up to you. Talking with some locals I found the best way to keep them off your property is a large dog (trained to deal with coyotes), and leaving your human scent around the property. They then believe a larger predator is in the area and tend to stay away. You many get the occasional problem but nothing as bad.

Raccoons on the other hand are a whole different story.

 

[Ms Jellybean]

I once read something about coyotes. Those of you that have experience...is this true?

I read a couple seasons ago that some of the guys were staking out in the barn lofts at night to shoot the coyotes because they were getting so prolific that they would boldly walk right into the barn even if there were people there (this was in the Virginias).

But here is what caught my attention.
They said that if you take out the alpha female (I believe) of the pack, the pack would move on to a different location. So they would try to identify the AF, take her out, and that would take care of the problem with at least that pack.

Is that true?

Coyotes have a pecking order

if you will. Even if you take out the Alpha another will rise up and take the place. While they will likely move on from the area they will return, as they are very intelligent.

I live in Colorado around Black Forest and have coyotes in the area. Some get very bold and will walk right up to you. Talking with some locals I found the best way to keep them off your property is a large dog (trained to deal with coyotes), and leaving your human scent around the property. They then believe a larger predator is in the area and tend to stay away. You many get the occasional problem but nothing as bad.

Raccoons on the other hand are a whole different story.

What they ^ said. Anytime you take out the alpha male (usually the leader) and/or alpha female another will rise to the the place. Their social structure is very much like wolves. They fight for their territory and they will not give it up easily. It would be hard for them to move into a new area and they would have to fight off the current 'owners' to gain the rights to that territory.

Coyotes have been know to enter houses to try and take small children. That is rare, but the more they are around people the less afraid they are of them.

Here is Texas they live in small packs, sometimes just a mated pair and their offspring.

 

[delisha]

I have a question. A guy my husband works with said he has three chickens, and a month ago when it was really cold (-15 before wind chill), they stopped laying for a couple of days. Nothing unusual about that, but then he said the next day he came out to check and there were seven eggs in the nest boxes! He swears they were holding them inside and then when it warmed up, pop, pop, pop (someone must have laid three in one day!).

What do you think? Is that even possible? I know this guy has embellished stories in the past, but before I tell my husband chickens can't do that, I wanted to know if you guys think it might be true. I thought it might be more likely that the chickens had kept laying eggs, but hiding them under whatever he has in the nest boxes so he didn't find them until it warmed up and he looked harder. I've never seen his setup.

I know it takes about 25 hours for one egg to go from the ovary to being fully shelled and laid, but could a hen be working on a few at the same time, so they all come out closer together?

Ok..if the bird is a mature healthy bird and everything is working properly it will not happen..however..if this did happen (and it can happen)..each egg that was layed in sequence would be an egg that would be less developed. the first egg would be a normal egg the second egg the shell would be softer then next egg would be rubber the next egg would be very soft covered and hardly covered at all....etc..all the way to just a yolk. It is a fluke and it can happen. I personally would not breed a bird like that. Any abnormal laying propensities should be avoided.

I once read something about coyotes. Those of you that have experience...is this true?

I read a couple seasons ago that some of the guys were staking out in the barn lofts at night to shoot the coyotes because they were getting so prolific that they would boldly walk right into the barn even if there were people there (this was in the Virginias).

But here is what caught my attention.
They said that if you take out the alpha female (I believe) of the pack, the pack would move on to a different location. So they would try to identify the AF, take her out, and that would take care of the problem with at least that pack.

Is that true?

Yes..
We have Coyotes..they don't like the tall fence..since we put up the fence we have not had them on the property..they do not like change and building. The neighbor is also putting up tall fencing in the back..so I doubt they will be around for a few years now. He has new goats all the time and the coyotes are more attracted to his stock.

 

[RedRidge]

I once read something about coyotes.  Those of you that have experience...is this true?

I read a couple seasons ago that some of the guys were staking out in the barn lofts at night to shoot the coyotes because they were getting so prolific that they would boldly walk right into the barn even if there were people there (this was in the Virginias). 

But here is what caught my attention. 
They said that if you take out the alpha female (I believe) of the pack, the pack would move on to a different location.  So they would try to identify the AF, take her out, and that would take care of the problem with at least that pack.

Is that true?

NO!
Just the opposite is true. If you have coyotes and they are not eating your livestock, DO NOT kill them.
Coyote habitats will always be occupied. If you kill the ones you have who are not a problem, others will move in. You simply have no way of knowing if the ones who move in will have a taste for your livestock or not.

I always cringe when I hear people say they are hunting coyotes who are not a problem. Seeing them or hearing them is not a good enough reason to eliminate them. They will be replaced. They do not understand.

Better yet... Get a good Maremma and quit worrying about it.

 

[hellbender]

The only good coyote....is a DEAD coyote. Everyone else can do as they please but if they are on my property or a neighbor's property...they are fair game to me and everyone I know around here.

All of my neighbors (and I) allow several folks from Tenn., Ky., OH., and WV come to our property in the spring with various types of den-dogs and Lurchers. They remove many 'problem' coyotes before they get old enough to become a serious threat.




If I were to get one of the traditional guardian breeds it would be a Caucsian Ovcharka



When I think about it...I know some folks in Washington State who breed them...I just might have to call and reserve one...

 

[misbhaven]

NO!
Just the opposite is true. If you have coyotes and they are not eating your livestock, DO NOT kill them.
Coyote habitats will always be occupied. If you kill the ones you have who are not a problem, others will move in. You simply have no way of knowing if the ones who move in will have a taste for your livestock or not.

I always cringe when I hear people say they are hunting coyotes who are not a problem. Seeing them or hearing them is not a good enough reason to eliminate them. They will be replaced. They do not understand.

Better yet... Get a good Maremma and quit worrying about it.

I have to agree i have a big male Saint the Coyotes howl he barks they seem to sense he is much bigger then them and run away...and my husband pees all over the yard anyway i think that may help also.

 

[Shan30]

I have a question.  A guy my husband works with said he has three chickens, and a month ago when it was really cold (-15 before wind chill), they stopped laying for a couple of days.  Nothing unusual about that, but then he said the next day he came out to check and there were seven eggs in the nest boxes!  He swears they were holding them inside and then when it warmed up, pop, pop, pop (someone must have laid three in one day!).

What do you think?  Is that even possible?  I know this guy has embellished stories in the past, but before I tell my husband chickens can't do that, I wanted to know if you guys think it might be true.  I thought it might be more likely that the chickens had kept laying eggs, but hiding them under whatever he has in the nest boxes so he didn't find them until it warmed up and he looked harder.  I've never seen his setup.

I know it takes about 25 hours for one egg to go from the ovary to being fully shelled and laid, but could a hen be working on a few at the same time, so they all come out closer together?

Funny timing, my MIL asked me the same thing last week. They got 6 eggs one day and only have 4 hens. I believe they were simply hidden in the coop.
When I told her that she said "What?! They horde?"