The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[Lacy Blues]

Thanks Kassaundra.


That's the plan slordaz.

 

[SherrieC]

I bought her in the out door area today so I could collect a couple of poos, neither was watery. One looked to have lots of undigested grass and the next one looked like a normal orange/brown colour. I gave them some mash earlier with some garlic and kimchi juice. I will feed them some yoghurt etc shortly before they go to bed and on my way home again tonight I will pick up some sardines for them tomorrow.

I had a look at her vent area and it looked fine with some new feathers growing, I think she must be moulting. I couldn't feel any eggs and I couldn't feel her crop, I will try to feel for her crop again before locking them up.

I have had them on fermented feed and they all seem fine on it except the 2 new girls aren't keen. I also gave them some Vit E just to help them in case they were fighting anything off the Vit E seemed to pick them up, also some slippery elm. I had my Plymouth that I was concerned about picking up really well until yesterday I noticed the runny poos again and she seemed a little off so I bit the bullet and gave them all piperazine and sure enough I found a round worm in the coop today. Whether that means any of them were under a large load is anyone's guess but I don't feel its worth the risk. I feed them raw garlic, ACV etc all the time which obviously isn't enough, I was giving them DE but I've decided to stop that.. .

 

[SherrieC]

Is it Vitamin E deficiency?

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publications/6/diseases-of-poultry/218/vitamin-e-deficiency/

 

[Jewelwing]

Well, the good news is that all my chicks are still alive & seem to be doing well. The bad news is that the broody hen tried to kill them. My guess is that she's not been broody long enough, since it's only been about 1-1/2 weeks since she started. She's such a mild mannered chicken, and lowest on the pecking order, that I thought maybe it would work anyway.

But as soon as she noticed the chicks under her, she started to peck at them. I was able to get her off the nest immediately and remove all the chicks. I put them back in their "temporary" brooder and put her wooden eggs back under her.

What to do now? Am I stuck raising them myself and then trying to integrate them into the flock once they're much older? Or can I try sticking them under her again in a week or so? If she's ready to have chicks, will it be a problem that they're 10-15 days old?

 

[lazy gardener]

She won't accept them at a later date, nor will they accept her after the "imprinting" window has passed.

 

[slordaz]

I have had them on fermented feed and they all seem fine on it except the 2 new girls aren't keen. I also gave them some Vit E just to help them in case they were fighting anything off the Vit E seemed to pick them up, also some slippery elm. I had my Plymouth that I was concerned about picking up really well until yesterday I noticed the runny poos again and she seemed a little off so I bit the bullet and gave them all piperazine and sure enough I found a round worm in the coop today. Whether that means any of them were under a large load is anyone's guess but I don't feel its worth the risk. I feed them raw garlic, ACV etc all the time which obviously isn't enough, I was giving them DE but I've decided to stop that.. .

sorry but still wet behind the ears lol,

You have to treat with the med 10 days later as any eggs they laid will hatch, and if you don't you will have to start over with the treatment. not sure what else you need to do though as if they do have them they are in the ground too and guess I need to read up on that if it's bad enough you have to treat they are probably pretty heavy in the ground too.

I wouldn't worry to much about the new ones not being to keen on FF, it's probably a dietary change for them and they will get used to it with time. Although I admit I get chicks so it's not usually a problem as they are on starter /grower food , they seem to like the change from dry to wet though lol

 

[Leahs Mom]

@Lacy Blues

On the legs, here are a few things that may be helpful from prior posts...sorry so long but cutting and pasting from several prior posts here.

****
If it is "walking" on the hocks rather than the foot it is often a sign of riboflavin deficiency. If you are feeding medicated feed, the med has the effect of blocking riboflavin from being utilized by the body. Even if you aren't feeding med. feed, the need for riboflavin from a "meat" source (bugs, mice, etc...items that they can catch on their own if they were with a broody on range) are usually lacking.

IF it's a riboflavin deficiency, you can add the "b" vitamins "naturally" by purchasing some clean beef liver and chop it into tiny pieces and feed RAW. Sometimes you will see improvement almost overnight but you have to catch it early!

Even if it isn't riboflavin deficiency, feeding chopped RAW liver, ground meat, etc., it a good way to ensure that they get "b" vitamins from a natural source. Vegetable sources of the "b" vitamins are not as bio-available and much of it is lost. One way to increase the absorption of the b vitamins from raw grains is to soak at least overnight to begin to break down the phytates that inhibit b vitamin absorption. Fermenting the "grain source" feed is even better at breaking down the pytates.

There is a lot of info out there but here's one quote:

Someone had remarked earlier how they wondered how the birds could be fine one day and not able to walk the next. In another part of JS book, he mentioned that was what happened. One day they were in that condition. After feeding the liver, they recovered quite quickly as well.




***************

Quote:
According to the Merk Veterinary Manual:

"Polyneuritis in birds represents the later stages of a thiamine deficiency, probably caused by buildup of the intermediates of carbohydrate metabolism. In the initial stages of deficiency, lethargy and head tremors may be noted. A marked decrease in appetite is also seen in birds fed a thiamine-deficient diet. Poultry are also susceptible to neuromuscular problems, resulting in impaired digestion, general weakness, star-gazing, and frequent convulsions.

"Polyneuritis may be seen in mature birds ~3 wk after they are fed a thiamine-deficient diet. As the deficiency progresses to the legs, wings, and neck, birds may sit on flexed legs and draw back their heads in a star-gazing position. Retraction of the head is due to paralysis of the anterior neck muscles. Soon after this stage, chickens lose the ability to stand or sit upright and topple to the floor, where they may lie with heads still retracted. Thiamine deficiency may also lead to a decrease in body temperature and respiratory rate. Testicular degeneration may be noted, and the heart may show slight atrophy. Birds consuming a thiamine-deficient diet soon show severe anorexia. They lose all interest in feed and will not resume eating unless given thiamine. If a severe deficiency has developed, thiamine must be force-fed or injected to induce eating."

 

[Lacy Blues]

Thank you for all that information LM, I will check it after I get some chores done that I have to do.

I culled the chick this morning. It was on its third day and though I had seen it come out from under its heating pad broody, I hadn't seen it eat at all or drink. I'm not for babysitting. Been there, done that.

It's surprising to me because each of the babies this has happened to were very vigorous and each got out of their own shells, seemingly in record time. I don't have so many hatching that I don't notice differences in how some hatch and then how they are afterward.

 

[Kassaundra]

But if the majority of your flock (or hatch) are thriving and healthy, and your food source is reasonably good for what you have available or can afford, do you really want to have all the additives and special needs to support the obviously weak individuals so they can make more weak individuals? Or is your food source really deficient if the majority thrive w/ it? jmo

 

[Lacy Blues]

No, I don't want to have to add additives. But I just got back to my computer and I haven't even looked at that stuff yet.

What's interesting is the pair that this particular chick was from have many other chicks on the ground which are just fine. This particular one was one of the last to hatch but it hatched so quickly after pipping and was quite strong. I was really surprised by the condition of that hock joint.