The Old Folks Home

[Arielle]

By-the-way: In what way is not having children "selfish"?? I have yet to figure that one out. Can anyone explain it to me?

I always feel uncomfortable when I hear this argument. It doesn't ring true; rather it sounds like an argument just to have one, like it is just repeating others.

I love my kids, boy, I turned into a defensive momma bear once they arrived! lol But I also spent many years learning to train: sea lions, dogs, horses . . . not cats, though I did know a couple that trained BIG cats, like tigers and leopards, and the process is the same. Be flexible based on the needs of each child and be consistent. I rule here because I am fair and consistent. I don't get too many arguments from my kids, and even less from my dogs. LOL But I also try to play "grandma" and play with them: from bucking bronco, to soccer, to drawing. It means they must help with chores so I can find the time to play with them. A win-win situation.

 

[dsqard]

7 Biddies I agree with Arielle and you. I can't understand how choosing not to have children could be considered selfish. I would much rather someone know themselves well enough to know that they don't want to have children and don't than that same person being pressured by family to just have a kid and regret it. We are all here for different purposes and I don't think anyone has the right to judge a person who decides their life's purpose doesn't involve kids. I wonder if men feel/get the same pressure as women? IDK Now if I had to do it all over again, I would have to hold judgement at this point. My daughter has been a real source of joy for me. To see her growing into a confident young woman is an experience I don't know I would trade for. My son is the one that would make me think twice about having children. I never expected life to be smooth sailing, in fact I have know a lot of hardships over the years but he has been difficult since he was very young. I have had joyful times with him but the heart wrenching ones have been hard to take at times. I am really hoping that this chance to get back on the right path (whatever path that may be for him) really hits home for him and he "gets it" this time. Again, I don't expect him to be perfect from this point out. Goodness knows at 46 I am still making mistakes. I am just hoping that he can find that "one thing" that inspires him to reach for the stars.

 

[mickey328]

I can't see it either. IMO, it's selfish to have children you don't want or can't care for properly. My 33 year old son has decided not to have any and while I'd love to have a grandbaby or two, I totally respect his decision. Not like there aren't enough people in the world as it is. I just hate it when I hear people bugging others to have children! What's right for one isn't right for the next. We have to pass a test and get a license for so many things (and rightly so) but to do the most important thing of all...you only need the right equipment. It's a very sad state of affairs.

 

[7 Biddies]

Back in the 1970's when I was saying, "to have, or not to have ... that is the question", my sister-in-law accused me of being *selfish* whenever I said I might not have kids. But, she also said the only reason to get married was to have kids. If you weren't going to have kids, you shouldn't get married. ??? Oh. After I got divorced in the 1980s and supported myself and my kids, she said that she thought men should earn more than women for the same work "because men have families to support". ??? So, I guess that pretty much explains it ... those people are just plain illogical and should be ignored. But, they're breeding!!! Ironically, she was an over emotional screamer and one of those who never should've bred.

 

[mickey328]

Well, there ya go...you have to consider the source! Someone like that tells me the sky is blue, I'd want to go check for myself, LOL Hmmm...men should earn more?? Does she iron her hubby's underpants too??

 

[Wisher1000]

I don't normally interject into these discussions because there are no good answers, but here is my two cents worth. I will respect the decisions of individuals. However, I worry that if the intelligent, hardworking, moral, insightful, productive, proactive, educated people (like SCG) decide not to bring a child(ren) into the world, what will the next generation look like? Who are going to be raising them? What is their motivation behind having the children that will be making decisions for us when we are old? What example will be set for a generation that is raised by a mother or grandmother (who didn't do too hot with her own or they would be raising the kid) or father (sometimes) who looks at the kids as a result of a good time or as the means to qualify for more assistance? What chance of becoming educated, productive, moral, insightful citizens do these children have? I just worry about the balance. When smart people forego or limit the number of children they have for very intelligent reasons, the next generation comes from those who are not so smart. That's all I'm saying........

 

[dsqard]

7 biddies, it amazes me that there are still women out there that think that way. I could wind up making more than my husband if I get the promotion and he is not offended by the idea. I made more than my first husband when we were together but I didn't divorce him because of that. I could never be a happy person being totally dependant on another person. I support my husband and he supports me emotionally as well as economically. In fact, we don't mix our money other than a savings account. He has his checking account and I have mine. It works well for us. We have never fought over money in all the years we have been together.

Wisher, I can see where you are going with your argument but I think our future is not as bleak as it may seem. First off, not all intelligent people are choosing not to have children, just look at the likes of me, Cynthia, Arielle and 7 biddies as examples ;-) (Right ladies???) I would further argue that every older generation (I include myself in this generation now LOL) seems to believe that they were raised on better values than the younger generations coming behind them. I think that is better judged on a person by person basis. If you look at entertainment as an indicator for how the younger generations are doing (and I try to avoid stereotyping them based on what is on television) then I think you are missing important pieces of the puzzle. I don't believe we are raising a generation of "Honey Boo Boos", I more believe that most of the people who watch television on a level enough to drive ratings are probably vapid imbeciles. As much as I might not agree with the religious convictions of my neighbors (this is a personal preference only, not a reflection of their religion) they seem to be raising their children well. Again, there will be outrageous examples in any particular sample of communities, and unfortunately they are usually the ones that wind up on the news, but they are not the norm. My personal opinion of the majority of parents is that they are trying to raise their children to be responsible, law abiding citizens. They are doing this with no manual on hand and doing the best that they know how. Do we make mistakes? Heck yeah, we are human.

 

[Arielle]

I don't normally interject into these discussions because there are no good answers, but here is my two cents worth. I will respect the decisions of individuals. However, I worry that if the intelligent, hardworking, moral, insightful, productive, proactive, educated people (like SCG) decide not to bring a child(ren) into the world, what will the next generation look like? Who are going to be raising them? What is their motivation behind having the children that will be making decisions for us when we are old? What example will be set for a generation that is raised by a mother or grandmother (who didn't do too hot with her own or they would be raising the kid) or father (sometimes) who looks at the kids as a result of a good time or as the means to qualify for more assistance? What chance of becoming educated, productive, moral, insightful citizens do these children have? I just worry about the balance. When smart people forego or limit the number of children they have for very intelligent reasons, the next generation comes from those who are not so smart. That's all I'm saying........

Wisher, thank you for saying this. I attemped it then edited to remove it because I sounded mean. You hit the nail on the head, very nicely said.

I had kids because I wanted the world to be a better place. I wanted to teach my kids to respect the earth and help others have a better life. THen I realized my optimistic goal would be useless. I can help my children become these things, but other people must choose that path for themselves. ANd I see many families, and I hear it thru school, how many parents don't care about their childrens education. Like school has given up. Maybe that is why the principle lost his job. . . .we can't give up on the kids born to parents that don't care. But we do need a better system to show the kids a viable path. Guess I can't give up. THese children will effect my future and my children's future. Need to go email school.

 

[KnobbyOaks]

I don't normally interject into these discussions because there are no good answers, but here is my two cents worth. I will respect the decisions of individuals. However, I worry that if the intelligent, hardworking, moral, insightful, productive, proactive, educated people (like SCG) decide not to bring a child(ren) into the world, what will the next generation look like? Who are going to be raising them? What is their motivation behind having the children that will be making decisions for us when we are old? What example will be set for a generation that is raised by a mother or grandmother (who didn't do too hot with her own or they would be raising the kid) or father (sometimes) who looks at the kids as a result of a good time or as the means to qualify for more assistance? What chance of becoming educated, productive, moral, insightful citizens do these children have? I just worry about the balance. When smart people forego or limit the number of children they have for very intelligent reasons, the next generation comes from those who are not so smart. That's all I'm saying........

x2

The others will and are breeding, diluting the gene pool. Now, that sounded really ugly. But don't get me wrong, if you don't want children, then don't have them and I will support you 100%. I too wasn't going to say anything on this subject but that's not always possible for some of us.

 

[superchemicalgirl]

SCG--how did you get the meat so clean of the tiny feathers and the wing feathers that you complained about?

The plucker... both digital (

) and mechanical. I'm pretty type-A personality so I try to get all the little pieces. There's still a few left.

By-the-way: In what way is not having children "selfish"?? I have yet to figure that one out. Can anyone explain it to me?

I think it's because you're allowed to do what YOU want to do instead of what THEY want to do. They being the kids. I think part of the reason people try to convince you to have kids is so you can be as miserable as they are. Seriously think about this... I think they might be miserable and want to drag you into it.

Does she iron her hubby's underpants too??

Oh wow I never got this memo. I'm supposed to be ironing undies??!!